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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I just started working with a relatively new bullet in my 1895SBL, the 402gr ShockHammer by Hammer bullets. The bullet is all copper with a gapping hollowpoint similar to the Barnes 300 TSX-FN bullet. Naturally, the bullet is long (1.323") and takes quit a bit of case capacity when loaded to an OAL of 2.550".

I put 44gr of H4198 under the bullet as a starting load and it is already compressed. I do not like compressed loads and would ultimately like to see velocities at 1,600-1,700 ft/sec.

I'm assuming that RE7 would take less room in the case and might be my only option for a suitable powder. Can anyone suggest a starting load or a load that will get me to 1,600 ft/sec?

For what its worth, Hammer bullets recommends using data for common cup & core bullets because of the unique design of their bullets which does not cause higher pressure like most mono-metal bullets do.
 

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When I loaded RL7 and 405’s I think 42grs was 1550fps from my guide gun. So 44-45grs should be in the 1600’s.


I shoot quite a few compressed loads from various rifles.
 

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Interesting bullet design. Website doesn't show 402gr but should look like 447gr below only shorter. If OAL restrictive then deep seating required to cycle rounds. Takes up case capacity and increases chamber pressure/bolt thrust. Longer bullets require faster barrel twist rate for stability in flight. Minimum 1:25 twist recommended Marlin is 1:20.

They mention minimum 1:22 twist for dangerous game. Implies faster twist needed for adequate penetration stability.

Bullet length 1.33" I thought 400gr Buster 1.079" and 300gr TSX FN 1.048" lengths were excessive in 45-70 Marlin or 450 Marlin BLR taking up nearly half the case volume! :eek:

https://hammerbullets.com/product-tag/shock-hammer/page/5/



 

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I'm sure these are probably expensive, but when you have a bullet that takes up that much case capacity, it's always better to start lower, especially if it's a solid copper design. Compressed isn't always a bad thing and can be preferable at times.
 

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45-70 GBL getting just under 1800 fps mv with 400gr Buster maximum safe load. With much longer 402gr Shock Hammer I would guess 1400 to 1500 fps is safely achievable in my GBL.

 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'll be headed to the club tomorrow for some speed/accuracy testing. I've got a few loaded with 44.0gr H4198, which I consider a max charge due to compression. I also loaded up some RE7 @ 37gr-38gr-39gr-40gr and 41gr. That "should" be fairly conservative IMO. All the RE7 loads fit beneath the bullet base without compression. The 41gr load was touching the powder column as far as I could tell.

Ideally, I'd like to see a .458 Shock Hammer at about 330gr for the 45-70/450 Marlin.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
BTW - Hammer also has a 276gr [.458] Shock Hammer bullet that is not yet listed on their site. Another Hammer bullet shooter is bringing them to Africa for use in his Marlin levergun. I'll be most interested to see how they penetrate on big/tough animals.

This is the 402gr version:

402gr SH.jpg
 

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That is a really interesting bullet design. I'll be watching for your range reports on the loads you have. It would also be interesting on how it performs on game.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Interesting bullets.
I wonder how hard brass bullets are on the rifling. Brass fouling?

Very unique driving bands with a bore-rider like bullet shaft. I assume that's to mitigate pressure.
Oddly enough the levergun (HP) bullets jump from 295gr to 370gr. The 370gr is 1.271" long. That's just about as long as the 402gr SH bullet. Their 325gr version only appears as a solid penetrating bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That is a really interesting bullet design. I'll be watching for your range reports on the loads you have. It would also be interesting on how it performs on game.
I'm strictly looking for an expanding bullet that will completely penetrate a bull moose when fired from an 18.5" levergun. I've got many different bullets that shoot great and kill quickly from my 1895SBL. Each has its niche. All things being considered, its hard to beat the plain jane Speer 400gr JFN.
 

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In addition to the twist recommendations, the “load development” section on their website recommends that the load not be compressed. Not saying the bullet cannot be used, but perhaps not the most optimal bullet in that weight range to use in a Marlin 45-70. Maybe designed for higher velocity .458 caliber cartridges??


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Deeper seating increases pressure. 400gr Speer and 400gr Buster same powder charge note deeper seated Buster higher muzzle speed.

 

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With the boat-tail design is it supposed to lend to be more accurate? I know with my 7mm mag the boat tail bullets are extremely accurate and at 100 yds 5 rnds are touching one another. I know a moose is a little tougher animal but my 405gr cast and my 465gr cast will do a complete pass through on an elk. Either round I would not be afraid of using on any North American game. Let us know how the accuracy works out for you. Also with my own cast rounds I can cast Many Many more rounds before I get to the cost of 50 of those. As far as leaving any type of copper residue I wouldn't think it would be any worse than any other caliber shooting copper clad bullets and wouldn't be hard on the rifling.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
With the boat-tail design is it supposed to lend to be more accurate? I know with my 7mm mag the boat tail bullets are extremely accurate and at 100 yds 5 rnds are touching one another. I know a moose is a little tougher animal but my 405gr cast and my 465gr cast will do a complete pass through on an elk. Either round I would not be afraid of using on any North American game. Let us know how the accuracy works out for you. Also with my own cast rounds I can cast Many Many more rounds before I get to the cost of 50 of those. As far as leaving any type of copper residue I wouldn't think it would be any worse than any other caliber shooting copper clad bullets and wouldn't be hard on the rifling.
The CEB bullets aren't copper, they are brass. I'm not familiar with brass fouling or methods to remove it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
UPDATE:

My Oehler was NOT reading for the first 10 rds as I repeatedly tried to adjust the screen position. Ultimately, I determined that it was a weak battery that caused the problem. Typically, when a battery craps out the printer just stops. But for whatever reason the printer was working and I was only getting erratic readings or zeros until a fresh 9 volt was installed.

The 8 rounds that I brought with the 402gr SH bullet and different charges all went over the screens without providing me with any data. I didn't notice any indication of excess pressure but that's a tough call in a Marlin levergun. I'd rather rely on velocity to know when I'm getting close to the top.

I did, however, get good readings on the 350 Swift A-Frames after the battery swap.

350 SAF 48.5gr H4198 1,942 ft/sec SD 23
350 SAF 49.5gr H4198 1,995 ft/sec SD 11 - 3 shot grp 1.85" @ 200yds
350 SAF 49.5gr RE7 1,949 ft/sec SD 6 - 3 shot grp 1.75" @ 200yds ( 4 shots opened to 3")

I'll be headed back next week to try the 402gr SH again. Hopefully, I'll get some velocity and accuracy info then. I live 150mi from the club so it's not always easy to get there.
 

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The CEB bullets aren't copper, they are brass. I'm not familiar with brass fouling or methods to remove it.
brass contains copper: ammonia & related products would remove it. (btw, the bluing will be removed if touched by ammonia, and the part will rust.)
ammonia shall be washed away w. clean/distilled water, and Ballistol after that_
 

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Pretty good 350gr muzzle speeds from 18-1/2" barrel. Alternate to SAF's Woodleigh Weldcore 350gr RN loading these in my 450 Marlin BLR (at 2250 fps muzzle speed). Good results with SAF's in 358 and 458 calibers these hold together well. But 458 400gr SAF not extreme penetrators as thought. 458 400gr SAF's recovered from Elk (fully grown not calf sized) shot broadside impact speeds noted.




 
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