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5,634 Posts
Will be interested in your findings.
My First 22 LR Reloads
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5,634 Posts
Would also be interested in Quiet equivalent velocities, subsonic circa 1050 fps and results with flat point variants to increase killing power at lower speeds if any of you are so inclined. Anything near the 225438 in shape doesn't kill too well at low speed, said by a guy who did that in his small game hunting for a short while with a K Hornet.
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17 Posts
About adding lube to the bullets... Save or find a plastic tray box like CCI Stingers come with and pop the little rectangle out that hold the cartridges. Drop your ammo in one. I suggest White Label Lube's 45/45/10 liquid lube since it dries less sticky than Lee's alox mix does but pretty much any liquid lube is poured in a small disposable tray. Holding the plastic rectangle with all the ammo, you should be able to dip the bullets all the way to the cases and evenly do each one. Set them back in the plastic box to dry and collect any drips. When I did this I found warming the liquid lube helped apply a thin coat instead of it going on thicker than you really want. I used a small coffee cup warmer and that worked perfect for keeping the lube warm. The only trick was as you pull them out to make sure you don't scrap off the lube as they fall from the plastic holder.
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2,120 Posts
I had a chance to test the 40 gr / 1.5 Bullseye recipe for accuracy and velocity.
Firearm: 39A Marlin
Cases: Primed Armscor
Average velocity: 1,282 f.p.s.
Individual velocities: 1336, 1265, 1255, 1303, 1252
The bullets were not crimped as I had no way of crimping them.
Accuracy at 25 yards: .70"
All in all, they worked pretty well. By comparison, the 1.5 / Titegroup averaged just a bit slower at 1,260 f.p.s.
Maximumbob54,
Thank you for the idea. Currently I am lubing the bullets in an H&I die in my lubrisizer.
w30wcf
Firearm: 39A Marlin
Cases: Primed Armscor
Average velocity: 1,282 f.p.s.
Individual velocities: 1336, 1265, 1255, 1303, 1252
The bullets were not crimped as I had no way of crimping them.
Accuracy at 25 yards: .70"
All in all, they worked pretty well. By comparison, the 1.5 / Titegroup averaged just a bit slower at 1,260 f.p.s.
Maximumbob54,
Thank you for the idea. Currently I am lubing the bullets in an H&I die in my lubrisizer.
w30wcf
Joined
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249 Posts
@30wcf,
Can you give me your bullet length and how deeply it is seated into the case?
Thanks,
Marshall
Can you give me your bullet length and how deeply it is seated into the case?
Thanks,
Marshall
Joined
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249 Posts
@30wcf,
Thanks for the data on the bullet. That makes it possible to calculate a QL prediction for this loading:
24" barrel
40 gr 30wcf bullet OAL = 0.457, 0.090 seat depth
40 gr 30wcf / 1.5 gr Bullseye / 0.980 OAL
15631 psi / 1377 fps / 168 ft-lb / 99.4% Burn / 62.1% Fill
So QL over-predicts the velocity by ~100 fps. This implies that the max pressure is probably closer to 12770 psi (which would deliver 1280 fps) than the 15631 given above. It looks like there is plenty of pressure safety margin in this loading. Thank you very much for running these chronograph measurements.
Marshall
Thanks for the data on the bullet. That makes it possible to calculate a QL prediction for this loading:
24" barrel
40 gr 30wcf bullet OAL = 0.457, 0.090 seat depth
40 gr 30wcf / 1.5 gr Bullseye / 0.980 OAL
15631 psi / 1377 fps / 168 ft-lb / 99.4% Burn / 62.1% Fill
So QL over-predicts the velocity by ~100 fps. This implies that the max pressure is probably closer to 12770 psi (which would deliver 1280 fps) than the 15631 given above. It looks like there is plenty of pressure safety margin in this loading. Thank you very much for running these chronograph measurements.
Marshall
Joined
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249 Posts
@777funk,
US patent 4432819 gives this formula:
Lead Nitrate = 40%
Lead Hypophosphite = 40%
Glass Powder = 20%
Unfortunately, you must synthesize the lead hypophosphite yourself from lead nitrate and calcium hypophosphite. The lead nitrate can be ordered from Elemental Scientific, and the calcium hypophosphite can be ordered on eBay. Sodium hypophosphite can also be used and is usually a little cheaper than the calcium salt. Here a link to a course I wrote on reloading primers. The procedures for making and using these and other primer compounds are provided:
http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade Primer Course Update.pdf
Good luck and be safe!
Marshall
US patent 4432819 gives this formula:
Lead Nitrate = 40%
Lead Hypophosphite = 40%
Glass Powder = 20%
Unfortunately, you must synthesize the lead hypophosphite yourself from lead nitrate and calcium hypophosphite. The lead nitrate can be ordered from Elemental Scientific, and the calcium hypophosphite can be ordered on eBay. Sodium hypophosphite can also be used and is usually a little cheaper than the calcium salt. Here a link to a course I wrote on reloading primers. The procedures for making and using these and other primer compounds are provided:
http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade Primer Course Update.pdf
Good luck and be safe!
Marshall
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142 Posts
Now figure out how to do this with a progressive press and you will retire a bazillionair.
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1,026 Posts
strike anywhere match tips work well also.
i got one of these kits and load my wrf empties. 2.3g unique with 35g varmigeddon bullets.
have used some of the larger bullets cast from the mold but no accuracy.
not going to be my lifes favorite hobby but there is a certain satisfaction .
i got one of these kits and load my wrf empties. 2.3g unique with 35g varmigeddon bullets.
have used some of the larger bullets cast from the mold but no accuracy.
not going to be my lifes favorite hobby but there is a certain satisfaction .
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8,175 Posts
Sounds like something I wouldn't want to attempt! Too tedious!Instead of investing in a 22lr reload kit,I am just stockpiling boxes and cases of 22lr every chance I get.
I had over 100,000 rds during the 22lr shortage,now I still got 100,000!Difference is,now they are all CCI standard and mini mag.And I got a maxi mag 22 mag stockpile too!
Now that Trump is in the house,it is time to stock up on ammo and reloading supplies.And,get that firearm you always wanted!
You don't know what can happen in 2020!A lib may be pres!
Everything is readily avail now and prices have come down.Time to go for it!
I had over 100,000 rds during the 22lr shortage,now I still got 100,000!Difference is,now they are all CCI standard and mini mag.And I got a maxi mag 22 mag stockpile too!
Now that Trump is in the house,it is time to stock up on ammo and reloading supplies.And,get that firearm you always wanted!
You don't know what can happen in 2020!A lib may be pres!
Everything is readily avail now and prices have come down.Time to go for it!
So, that's where all the .22s went! I knew somebody had closet full. How long will it take you to go through 100,000 rounds?
Michael
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12,853 Posts
That is interesting but is something I pray that I never find the need to actually do.
Joined
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8,175 Posts
100 weeks.I shoot every day in my back yard(22lr only).I go through 1000 rds of 22lr per week on average.
Good to have all those rounds during a 22lr ammo shortage because when people start to panic,they will trade you nice stuff for it or pay big bucks!
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294 Posts
Oh, so you're "that guy" all the retailers talk about...LOL! "Sorry, all out. "That guy" was here again..."
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8,175 Posts
I really do not think the pimply faced kid at Academy pays attention to anything.But,whats the concern?I am paying for it?
Is that a problem?
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249 Posts
@All,
After being distracted by several other projects, I returned to reloading 22LR rounds a couple of months ago. The latest work addresses some of the initial problems I encountered. The first was with lower base bulges that standard resizing dies could not reach. These bulges sometimes make chambering reloaded rounds difficult or impossible. A friend I met on Castboolits (Traffer) has made me one of his custom resizing dies that completely resizes the case all the way to the rim.
![Knockout punch Auto part Hardware accessory Nut Metal]()
![Screw Fastener Auto part Metal Hardware accessory]()
On the negative side, you have to beat the case out of the die using a metal pin inside the case and it is slow taking ~10 sec/case. However, it does a beautiful job of resizing the entire case.
Problem two was making a strong reliable priming compound. Several Eley Prime type non-corrosive rimfire primer formulations are available to those who don't mind doing a little chemistry. One simple primer mixture comes from Eley's patent US4432819. This compound requires that you synthesize lead hypophosphite. However, other than dealing with a toxic lead compound (most are toxic) the synthesis is quite trivial.
In addition to being an inert powder before being moistened, another nice benefit is that it is self binding. Once water is added to initiate the reaction between the lead nitrate and lead hypophosphite, the growing crystals of lead nitratohypophosphite form an interlocking network that makes a durable pellet which is locked into the rim. The downside of this formula is that while adequate to ignite the gunpowder, it is noticeably less powerful than lead styphnate based rimfire compounds. Because, the primer in 22LR rounds significantly contribute to the overall propellant pressure, a weaker primer will reduce muzzle velocity.
A desire for more energetic rimfire primer compounds has led me to try several Eley Prime lead styphnate based priming mixtures, EPS0 and EPS2. Unfortunately, both of these mixtures create a fragile pellet that instead of firing often turns into a loose powder when the firing pin strikes the case. A durable pellet can be made by either adding ~0.5% gum arabic to the primer formula or by adding a 3% solution of shellac in alcohol to the dried pellet. While both of these solutions fix the fragile pellet problem, they also tend to kill the primers.
To solve the fragile pellet problem, some of the self binding EPH0 compound above was used as a binder for the EPS0 and EPS2 formulas. Since I already had both EPH0 and EPS0 prepared, I decide to mix them together in a 50:50 blend. Mathematically calculating the formula of the resulting blend gives the following which was designated EPM4 (BTW the 3rd letter in my naming system designates the primer technology used, H = Hypophosphite, S = Styphnate, P = Picrate, T = Tetracene, D = DDNP, K = KDNBF, I = iso-DDNP, L = Lead Dinitrosalicylicate, and M = Miscellaneous/Mixed.)
This compound was found to give both a durable pellet and the strong firing typical of lead styphnate based primers. The above formula was slightly modified to make it easier to create directly. The tetracene was increased to 3.5%, the glass was reduced to 25.0%, and the odd leftover 0.7% was moved into Ba(NO3)2. These changes give the following formula which was designated EPM11:
This formula was made and tested, and found to work identically to EPM4. This is currently my favorite non-corrosive primer compound.
A similar combined technology rimfire primer compound was patented in 1934 that was based on lead picrate and lead nitratohypophosphite. The patent formula is shown below:
For improved safety, the formula was converted to an Eley Prime type mixture which was designated EPP12.
This formula was tested and found to work well. While you could see fire coming out of the barrel when the primers fired, they were less energetic than EPM4 and were more similar to EPH0 primers. Even so, this is an interesting approach since it uses picric acid which can be easily made from over the counter compounds. This formula was modified to make it more like EPM11 by increasing the lead hypophosphite to 20% and adjusting the lead nitrate and potassium picrate loadings to give the most efficient usage of lead nitrate possible.
This formula was tested and gave excellent results. It was found to be as energetic as EPM4 and EPM11.
In conclusion, with the case bulges solved and the availability of several good non-corrosive rimfire priming compounds, reloading 22LR rounds is now easier than ever.
Marshall
After being distracted by several other projects, I returned to reloading 22LR rounds a couple of months ago. The latest work addresses some of the initial problems I encountered. The first was with lower base bulges that standard resizing dies could not reach. These bulges sometimes make chambering reloaded rounds difficult or impossible. A friend I met on Castboolits (Traffer) has made me one of his custom resizing dies that completely resizes the case all the way to the rim.
On the negative side, you have to beat the case out of the die using a metal pin inside the case and it is slow taking ~10 sec/case. However, it does a beautiful job of resizing the entire case.
Problem two was making a strong reliable priming compound. Several Eley Prime type non-corrosive rimfire primer formulations are available to those who don't mind doing a little chemistry. One simple primer mixture comes from Eley's patent US4432819. This compound requires that you synthesize lead hypophosphite. However, other than dealing with a toxic lead compound (most are toxic) the synthesis is quite trivial.
| | | US4432819 |
| Rimfire Formulation EPH 0 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Pb(NO3)2 | 40.0 | 13.2 |
| Pb(H2PO2)2 | 40.0 | 13.2 |
| Grit | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
In addition to being an inert powder before being moistened, another nice benefit is that it is self binding. Once water is added to initiate the reaction between the lead nitrate and lead hypophosphite, the growing crystals of lead nitratohypophosphite form an interlocking network that makes a durable pellet which is locked into the rim. The downside of this formula is that while adequate to ignite the gunpowder, it is noticeably less powerful than lead styphnate based rimfire compounds. Because, the primer in 22LR rounds significantly contribute to the overall propellant pressure, a weaker primer will reduce muzzle velocity.
A desire for more energetic rimfire primer compounds has led me to try several Eley Prime lead styphnate based priming mixtures, EPS0 and EPS2. Unfortunately, both of these mixtures create a fragile pellet that instead of firing often turns into a loose powder when the firing pin strikes the case. A durable pellet can be made by either adding ~0.5% gum arabic to the primer formula or by adding a 3% solution of shellac in alcohol to the dried pellet. While both of these solutions fix the fragile pellet problem, they also tend to kill the primers.
| | | |
| Rimfire Formulation EPS 0 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Styphnic Acid | 21.6 | 7.1 |
| PbO | 19.9 | 6.6 |
| Ba(NO3)2 | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| Tetrazene | 3.5 | 1.2 |
| Glass | 35.0 | 11.6 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
| | | US4640724 |
| Rimfire Formulation EPS 2 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Styphnic Acid | 24.9 | 8.2 |
| PbO | 23.0 | 7.6 |
| Ba(NO3)2 | 22.5 | 7.4 |
| Tetrazene | 4.6 | 1.5 |
| Glass | 25.0 | 8.3 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
To solve the fragile pellet problem, some of the self binding EPH0 compound above was used as a binder for the EPS0 and EPS2 formulas. Since I already had both EPH0 and EPS0 prepared, I decide to mix them together in a 50:50 blend. Mathematically calculating the formula of the resulting blend gives the following which was designated EPM4 (BTW the 3rd letter in my naming system designates the primer technology used, H = Hypophosphite, S = Styphnate, P = Picrate, T = Tetracene, D = DDNP, K = KDNBF, I = iso-DDNP, L = Lead Dinitrosalicylicate, and M = Miscellaneous/Mixed.)
| | | 50%EPH0/50%EPS0 |
| Rimfire Formulation EPM 4 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Styphnic Acid | 10.8 | 3.6 |
| PbO | 10.0 | 3.3 |
| Ba(NO3)2 | 10.0 | 3.3 |
| Pb(H2PO2)2 | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| Pb(NO3)2 | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| Tetrazene | 1.8 | 0.6 |
| Glass | 27.5 | 9.1 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
This compound was found to give both a durable pellet and the strong firing typical of lead styphnate based primers. The above formula was slightly modified to make it easier to create directly. The tetracene was increased to 3.5%, the glass was reduced to 25.0%, and the odd leftover 0.7% was moved into Ba(NO3)2. These changes give the following formula which was designated EPM11:
| | Mod EPM 4 | |
| Rimfire Formulation EPM 11 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Styphnic Acid | 10.8 | 3.6 |
| PbO | 10.0 | 3.3 |
| Ba(NO3)2 | 10.7 | 3.5 |
| Pb(H2PO2)2 | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| Pb(NO3)2 | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| Tetrazene | 3.5 | 1.2 |
| Glass | 25.0 | 8.3 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
This formula was made and tested, and found to work identically to EPM4. This is currently my favorite non-corrosive primer compound.
A similar combined technology rimfire primer compound was patented in 1934 that was based on lead picrate and lead nitratohypophosphite. The patent formula is shown below:
| | | US2116878 |
| Rimfire Formulation EPP 11 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Lead Picrate | 30.0 | 9.9 |
| Pb(NO3)2 | 33.0 | 10.9 |
| Pb(H2PO2)2 | 12.0 | 4.0 |
| Glass | 25.0 | 8.3 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
For improved safety, the formula was converted to an Eley Prime type mixture which was designated EPP12.
| | | Mod EPP11 |
| Rimfire Formulation EPP 12 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Potassium Picrate | 17.7 | 5.8 |
| Pb(NO3)2 | 45.3 | 14.9 |
| Pb(H2PO2)2 | 12.0 | 4.0 |
| Glass | 25.0 | 8.3 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
This formula was tested and found to work well. While you could see fire coming out of the barrel when the primers fired, they were less energetic than EPM4 and were more similar to EPH0 primers. Even so, this is an interesting approach since it uses picric acid which can be easily made from over the counter compounds. This formula was modified to make it more like EPM11 by increasing the lead hypophosphite to 20% and adjusting the lead nitrate and potassium picrate loadings to give the most efficient usage of lead nitrate possible.
| | | Based on EPM4 |
| Rimfire Formulation EPP 14 | | |
| | % | gr |
| Potassium Picrate | 14.0 | 4.6 |
| Pb(NO3)2 | 37.5 | 12.3 |
| Pb(H2PO2)2 | 20.0 | 6.6 |
| Tetracene | 3.5 | 1.2 |
| Glass | 25.0 | 8.3 |
| | | |
| Total | 100.0 | 33.0 |
This formula was tested and gave excellent results. It was found to be as energetic as EPM4 and EPM11.
In conclusion, with the case bulges solved and the availability of several good non-corrosive rimfire priming compounds, reloading 22LR rounds is now easier than ever.
Marshall
Joined
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294 Posts
The comment towards you was made in jest (of course) but we had a real-life "guy" like that who showed up at the local Bass Pro every Monday morning at 9:30 am (and other local sporting goods stores as well) and bought every box of .22LR they put on the shelf...this was after Sandy Hook when all they would get was maybe 1000 rounds per week...I asked the salesman what was going on and he said "that guy" would wait for them to unload the truck and stock the shelf, snatch it up and put it on his charge card and the store manager said they had to sell it to him. "That guy" told the same clerk he had over 300,000 rounds of .22LR in his basement; I asked the clerk "what for"? and he looked me dead in the eye and said straight-faced; "Zombie apocalypse". He was dead-serious.
If this guy was a teenager he could probably never shoot up all that ammo in a lifetime. And he wasn't shooting, he was 'stockpiling'. So, yeah, having a little fun with you, but "that guy" flat pissed me off.
I didn't shoot my .22's for two years because I couldn't buy ammo. There is being prepared, and there is flat-out hoarding.
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