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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have looked through the archives to find an answer to my questions but came up with none.

Has anybody reloaded their 45/70 lever with Hornady's Monoflex projectiles? do you have to trim your cases like you do with Hornady Flexi tip Projectiles if you are not using Hornady cases? How well did they preform when used on game i.e.deer. Did you recover any projectiles if so what was their retained weight.

Thanks.
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Not being a fan of the FTX, I personally feel the monoflex is another poor choice for one and a different reason.

It should have more integrity then the 325gr gummy nose, but due to it's very light for caliber weight, no matter how fast you start it, it will shed velocity and energy like water off a ducks back.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
****,

Not being a fan of the FTX, I personally feel the monoflex is another poor choice for one and a different reason.

It should have more integrity then the 325gr gummy nose, but due to it's very light for caliber weight, no matter how fast you start it, it will shed velocity and energy like water off a ducks back.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
G'day Crusty Deary Ol'Coot,

Yes I agree it would shed velocity and energy quickly but 45/70, for me, (it's more like a very loud bow) is not typically a long range calibre and it is one I would be using out to about a hundred meters(110yds). The nature of my use is hunting and I prefer to stalk an animal than take long shots. Thanks for you input it certainly is valid.
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I feel the Monoflex is another of many choices for the 45-70 that has its place I have a box to try just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I plan on loading these for my Super 14 T/C Contender carbine (yes this is legal here in Canada) I hunt thick bush shots maybe max 100 - 125 yards but more like 40 - 60 yards.

I do not need the thump of a heavy bullet for either me or the game I'm hunting for this application.

I have Hornady data on my reloading desk but I'm running out for work right now I'll try and remember to post it later if I forget to pm me a reminder.

 

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Back with a short one --------

I am for the most part, a one bullet for one hunting rifle person.

I wish to maximize a given firearm used for hunting with one bullet that is the best all around option for ANYTHING that firearm may be called on to hunt.

Being the Ol'Coot that I am, I feel it is poor thinking to switch back and forth with loads and bullets depending on the game hunted and typically come down on a bullet of good integrity and avoid those found to be fragile and/or overly destructive.

I used for my first 45/70 critter a 355gr Wide Flat Nose cast bullet at a velocity of just over 2300fps and found it left a HUGE WOUND CHANNEL. HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that was basically a non-expanding bullet, but the combination of the WFN and the velocity was devastating in the extreme.

A world better is my 465gr WFN cast at 1650fps. Very effective on deer and elk, without the over kill.

I don't consider my 45/70 to be a long range hunting rifle, and should I find that the game is out of the range, 250 - 275yds, of the 465gr load, well I should have brought the 300.

So, for those reasons, I'd avoid the velocity and energy shedding Monoflex along with the potentially overly destructive FTX.

We are blessed with the many choices we have, I just choose to optimize with one bullet/load and stay there.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Back with a short one --------

I am for the most part, a one bullet for one hunting rifle person.

I wish to maximize a given firearm used for hunting with one bullet that is the best all around option for ANYTHING that firearm may be called on to hunt.

Being the Ol'Coot that I am, I feel it is poor thinking to switch back and forth with loads and bullets depending on the game hunted and typically come down on a bullet of good integrity and avoid those found to be fragile and/or overly destructive.

I used for my first 45/70 critter a 355gr Wide Flat Nose cast bullet at a velocity of just over 2300fps and found it left a HUGE WOUND CHANNEL. HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that was basically a non-expanding bullet, but the combination of the WFN and the velocity was devastating in the extreme.

A world better is my 465gr WFN cast at 1650fps. Very effective on deer and elk, without the over kill.

I don't consider my 45/70 to be a long range hunting rifle, and should I find that the game is out of the range, 250 - 275yds, of the 465gr load, well I should have brought the 300.

So, for those reasons, I'd avoid the velocity and energy shedding Monoflex along with the potentially overly destructive FTX.

We are blessed with the many choices we have, I just choose to optimize with one bullet/load and stay there.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
G'day Crusty.......,

You sound like you have had some experience with the 45/70 as this is only my second 45/70 my first was a Ruger #1 which I just didn't like. My experience has been with high velocity calibres and I certainly am a fan of the Homogenous projectile for hunting with high velocity rounds.

You have intrigued me with your 355gn WFN cast projectile driven at a velocity of 2300fps, until you wrote that I would have thought 2300fps was pie in the sky for a cast projectile. Are you casting these projectiles your self? Do you know what percentages of tin and antimony are mixed with your lead? What brand bullet mould are you using? Also would you mind telling me what powder you used and how much for each load.
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My 45/70 experience has just been with my RUGER #1 "S" and it has been a fun trip.

The 355gr was a Wide Flat Nose from an LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) mold and I did a bunch of testing/shooting over 2000fps and up to and including a bit over 2500fps. Then Hunted the first Fall with that bullet at just over 2300fps.

Yeeeeow was that ever deadly. I'd read much about eating right up the hole with cast bullets, but NEVER in this world had I expected a basically non-expanding bullet to leave such a big hole! That WFN does every thing you may read about and do it in spades. Awesome!

That would have been with just plain Ol'Wheel Weights Quenched as they drop from the mold, sized .459 and with a gas check.

This rifle has a beautiful barrel and leading just has never been an issue.

I get some streaking in the last inch or so back of the muzzle, but it comes right out if I happen to bother with it.

I just never had the consistency and groups I desired with that bullet, so after a bunch of reading, posting and chatt'in a couple guys with lots of experience, one a mold maker, told me that on average a 45/70 just shot cast bullets of over 400gr better then those of lighter weight.

Would the 355 have shot better at lower velocities? Can't say. It was early in my 45/70 experience and I still hadn't adjusted the mental process from the many years of typical high velocity loading, shooting and hunting.

Well, I had Bruce (BABore) on the Cast Boolits Forum make me a copy of his 465gr WFN as he gave it an accuracy edge over his lighter bullets. He also said to use 47.5gr of H335 behind a bullet cast of 50/50 Wheel Weights/Lead water quenched and allowed to age a minimum of 7 days.

He also recommended that I get a .460 Lee style push through sizer die and size and gas check ASAP after casting. Then at a later point/time go back and lube with a .461 sizer die in the sizer/luber.

Well, following Bruce's recommendations, right down to powder type and amount, I quickly had better accuracy and much better consistency then with the earlier and lighter bullet.

Sorry to say that Bruce no longer makes his great molds, but I think that Tom at Accurate Molds or the folk at Night Owl Enterprises (NOE) could make something similar.

Yes, I do cast my own bullets as that was part of my reason in buying a 45/70. I wanted to take one more step in the handloading process for hunting ammo and using my own cast bullets just seemed to be the logical direction.

I have tested a number of powders, but with this bullet, to this point, the load as recommended of 47.5 gr of the H335 has just been the most consistent. It is certainly effective on deer and elk.

I used RL7 for the load that I took that first deer with, but have tested a number of others.

One that you see lots of people use is 3031, but I didn't fine favorable results with it.

Don't want to over load you, but if it would help, I can check the records and give you a more complete powder list. Not a problem, glad to do it.

By the way, don't recall the bullet lube used with the +2000fps loads but that info might also be on the targets. I am using a White Label product called "BAC" with the 465gr WFN and find it does very well for me.

Some of the LBT blue lube is said to clean any leading out of a barrel and leave it clean. To this point I haven't found it so, but have seen the times when the BAC left the barrel bright and lead streaks free. I think it depends on temperature and possibly humidity, but as said, leading for me is such a minor issue as to not be an issue.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
G'day Crusty.......,
Thanks for the info, I am using a Marlin 1895, which doesn't like feeding 400+grn projectiles. I do have some very hard lead available to me with a mixture of 12%antimony, 8% tin and 2%siver. I used t mould my own projectiles for pistol shooting and could drive the lead as hard as a copper jacketed projectile, though I don't know I wont go down the moulding path again. I used to mould 10,0000 projectiles a month when I was shooting competition and that was mostly for practice. I gave the pistols away some ten years ago though I still have the furnace etc. but have sold my lube sizer. I think these days I'd rather by a factory copper jacketed or a monolithic projectile.
 

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I feel the Monoflex is another of many choices for the 45-70 that has its place I have a box to try just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I plan on loading these for my Super 14 T/C Contender carbine (yes this is legal here in Canada) I hunt thick bush shots maybe max 100 - 125 yards but more like 40 - 60 yards.

I do not need the thump of a heavy bullet for either me or the game I'm hunting for this application.

I have Hornady data on my reloading desk but I'm running out for work right now I'll try and remember to post it later if I forget to pm me a reminder.

Nice rig I want one In 308.
Where in B.C you located? Im outside Williams lake.
 

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I'm in the Fraser Valley.

FYI you can't put a 308 Win barrel onto a Contender frame are you thinking of the much larger Encore/Prohunter frame?

Contenders are not designed to handle the higher pressures of the 308 class of bullets the closest I can come is my 21" wildcat 308Bellm chambered barrel I neck down 444 Marlin brass with 308 Win dies and load it to 2620fps with 150gr bullets.
 

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For some reason my computer wouldn't let me just copy and paste the info I had to type it all out I have triple checked the data it is all correct.


45-70 Government Bullet
#45010 250gr MonoFlex

Notice of Disclaimer: This Data was developed in the Hornady MFG Co. test facilities under controlled conditions.
As components and conditions may very, the reloader should approach maximum loads with extreme caution.
Hornady MFG Co. PO Box Grand Island, NE 6880 Disclaims all responsibility for mishaps of any nature which might occur from use of this data.


45-70 Government Bullet #45010 250gr MonoFlex Sectional Density .170 Ballistic Coefficient .155

Marlin 1895 Barrel Factory Length 22" Twist 1 - 20" Primer 210 Case Winchester COL 2.587"


IMR4198 41.5 = 1800 43.4 = 1900 45.3 = 2000 47.3 = 2100 49.2 = 2200

H4198 42.5 = 1800 44.4 = 1900 46.4 = 2000 48.3 = 2100 50.3 = 2200 52.2 = 2300

Norma 200 44.8 = 44.8 = 1800 47.1 = 1900 49.3 = 2000 51.5 = 2100 53.8 = 2200

Viht N130 45.3 = 1800 47.3 = 1900 49.4 = 2000 51.4 = 2100 53.4 = 2200

RL-7 45.6 = 1800 47.7 = 1900 49.8 =2000 51.8 = 2100 53.9 = 2200

A2015 49.6 = 1800 51.5 = 1900 53.4 = 2000
 
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