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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all. I need some help, I am looking to make my 450 marlin legal for use in the new limited rifle zone, just like Indiana
We now can use rifles with the min 1.16 and max 1.8......I have seen post were guys we're making a 450 necked down to 1.8 does any one have any loading data for it? Or advice? Any help? Thanks
 

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Hi Crazyracks, welcome to the forum.

being as I'm from Indiana, I had the same problem, only with a 45-70.

The problem you will have is getting dies to work with the shortened cases. The sizing die needs to have material removed from the bottom in order to size the case mouth. The seating die will work to seat the bullet, but it will not crimp it, so you will need to get a separate crimp die and shorten it to work.

You will want to seat the bullets out to as close to standard COL as possible so the cartridge will cycle through the action. This will also allow you use any standard loading data since case volume will be about the same. You will necessarily have to use a heavy bullet to get the COL where you want it and have something to crimp on. I use a Remington 405 gr JSP and crimped on the bottom Cannilure for COL of 2.494.

I call my cartridge a 45-50 wildcat and it shoots a consistent 5/8" @ 50 M.

Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, for the help. I am hoping others in Indiana have some advice or knowledge about a shorten 450 marlin case. Case lenght can only be 1.8 to make it legal. Any wildcats ammo being sold in that case lenght in 450 marlin?
 

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I too am excited about the limited firearm zone in Michigan. Will be using my winnnie 94 in .357. Just last nite I talked to a Michigan dnr officer about this. He told me they are going with the caliber that is marked on the barrel. And using that caliber to determine case length via a reloading manual. The case length for a 450 marlin is 2.100 so that would not be allowed. I asked him about shortening the case to the legal limit. He told me no they were going by factory caliber specs. His words were I am not carrying a set of calipers with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Interesting....I too have talk with the mich DNR. Called the plainwell branch. They told me they had a discussion and were given the green light to tell people calling in that wildcatting was perfectly find. Came down from her LT. They were all getting gauge cards for 1.8 inch case and .357 dia. I ask her three time all in different ways to make sure it would be legal. Feel free to call. The numbers on the back of the license rule book. This could get interesting.
 

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SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

Includes ammo, according to the 2008 supreme court ruling
 

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Thanks for the info. The dnr I talked to might just be really against the law. I sure like your answer better.
Interesting....I too have talk with the mich DNR. Called the plainwell branch. They told me they had a discussion and were given the green light to tell people calling in that wildcatting was perfectly find. Came down from her LT. They were all getting gauge cards for 1.8 inch case and .357 dia. I ask her three time all in different ways to make sure it would be legal. Feel free to call. The numbers on the back of the license rule book. This could get interesting.
 

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If you did shorten some brass and some dies to work, you not be able to full length resize, which may be nice after extended brass usage. You would also have quite the jump to the rifling. The whole deal sounds like a huge pain in the rear, to make a rifle not perform to its capabilities. Possibly feeding issues as well.

Save the .450 for less restrictive locales and buy a .45 Colt. 1894. This you could really steam up, with some 300+ gr. flatnose, and hit like a factory 45-70. Or probably pretty close to it.

Rossi made a copy of a 92 in 454 Casull, but IIRC, a steady diet of the full power stuff was a little hard on them.
 

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I know that you have to work with the hunting laws but I have trouble seeing the logic in the game depts. reasoning. What next, a slingshot with no longer than a 3" wood handle?
 

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Try some of the Indiana forums. I bought a 44 mag so I was legal but others are trimming 444, 45-70, 35 rem plus a bunch of wildcats. The 35 rem is just trimmed and loaded to it's correct OAL with a modified Lee factory crimp die.

Home | HUNTING INDIANA

INGunOwners
 

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I know that you have to work with the hunting laws but I have trouble seeing the logic in the game depts. reasoning. What next, a slingshot with no longer than a 3" wood handle?
Indiana, Ohio and some areas of Michigan were limited to slugs or muzzle loaders. This is a step to allow other calibers. Indiana has full rifle calibers .243+ in the works.
 

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I too am excited about the limited firearm zone in Michigan. Will be using my winnnie 94 in .357. Just last nite I talked to a Michigan dnr officer about this. He told me they are going with the caliber that is marked on the barrel. And using that caliber to determine case length via a reloading manual. The case length for a 450 marlin is 2.100 so that would not be allowed. I asked him about shortening the case to the legal limit. He told me no they were going by factory caliber specs. His words were I am not carrying a set of calipers with me.
There's nothing stating what caliber you Cartridge you can used except the bullet diameter in the length of the case and that is it. If you can find any of the specific data could you please post it here.
 

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Shotgun, Handgun, Black-powder Firearms Only Area The Department has received requests from deer hunters to allow for the use of .35 caliber or larger rifles capable of using certain traditional pistol cartridges to take deer in the Shotgun, Handgun, Black-powder Firearms Only Area herein referred to as the “Shotgun Zone.” These straight-walled cartridges have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches. The longer barrel of the rifle with these cartridges should increase accuracy as compared to a short-barreled pistol. Use of these rifles could ensure that a firearm is sized appropriately to fit the physical abilities of participants in the Mentored Youth Hunting Program. Under current regulations, many firearms require modification to meet this standard. In addition, the Department has received requests from deer hunters to allow for the use of a .35 caliber or larger air rifle or pistol charged only from an external high compression power source (external hand pump, air tank, or air compressor). These large-bore air rifles are not as powerful as a black-powder gun and do not shoot as far as a muzzleloader. In the Shotgun Zone, firearm deer hunters are currently restricted to the use of the following firearms: • A shotgun with a smooth or rifled barrel. • A .35 caliber or larger pistol that can hold up to nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined and loaded with straight-walled cartridges. • A muzzle-loading rifle or black-powder rifle loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute. Restrictions in the Shotgun Zone were intended to prevent the use of rifles in an area with high population densities based on concern for public safety during firearm deer seasons. Indiana has allowed the use of certain rifle calibers for deer hunting, with regulations similar to the ones being proposed in this memorandum. Indiana has allowed the use of these rifles since 2007 and has seen no increase in the number of hunter injuries or fatalities attributable to the use of these rifles. The use of rifles accounts for approximately 10% of their deer harvest. The Ohio Wildlife Council is currently exploring the use of rifles to take deer in Ohio. The proposed change would allow the use of pistol cartridge rifles for deer hunting. The rifles would be the same caliber and use the same straight-walled cartridges that are currently legal for use in handguns.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/06WCO2014_Deer_OpenClosed_Info_454241_7.pdf
 

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I understand that you are trying to use what you have, but I think if it was me, I would just go with a Model 1894 in 44 mag. I would hate to spend all of this effort in trying to get the cartridge modified, only to have an issue caused by the shortened cartridge case. I know what a pain it is after shooting 38 Spl ammo in a 357 mag revolver.
Of course, I have never felt limited while carrying the Ithaca Deerslayer or a flintlock muzzleloader either. While I have several guns that are capable of shooting deer well past 100 yards, I have only done so twice. Once with an open sighted 45-70 and the other was with the Ithaca slug gun, also open barrel sights. Most of my deer shot are around 50 yards or so.

Hopefully you can get a denotative clarification on the regs and determine if a shortened case will allow you to use the caliber and gun. I think they would have been much better off to publish a list of approved cartridges.
 
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Proposal for 2015 is a cartridge of .243 and no case length. Hang in there its coming I have a Marlin 336 in 445 Super Mag. If you reload brass is from Starline and I use the Hornady 225 FTX with either 296 or 4227 for 2100 FPS
 

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Its easy and it works. Search the web. There is a mountain of information on this. For the 450 marlin I use the same primer, the same amount of the same powder, same bullet , and the same C.O.L. The rifle shoots to the same point of impact as the 2.1" My Browning doesn't know what length of case I'm using and I'm sure not going to tell it.
 
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