[Redmist]

Need some help from the experts here -
I tried to load my '63 vintage 35 Rem. Texan and the round would not stay in the magazine. It popped back out and under the loading gate and tied up the gun. I disassembled it, got the round out, and figuring it was just a weird fluke, and did it all over again with the same results. I've been shooting this rifle for years with no problems. Any ideas for the cause - and the fix ??

 

[picketpin]

All the experts must be out shootin.. my guess is the loading gate spring is loose, snug that screw up and see if that helps. Just an aside, I have broken several of the loading spring screws so I have started using nail polish or a dab of blue Locktite on the treads and just tighten moderately.

james

 

[Tomray]

Not having seen the rifle, Picketpin has a good suggestion in checking the loading spring screw. Another thought is, you are not pushing the round in far enough to get it in front of the carrier to stop the round........Or the carrier is now, for some reason sitting too low and can't hold the round properly.

Tom

 

[Leverdude]

When you load the gun the round should end up at the forward edge of the loading gate. Its stuck there between the lever & gate. If you didn't mess with anything I'd look at the gate first, a loose screw usually only prevents the lifter from moving up but I cant think of anything else that would let a round loaded thru the gate slip back into the action. The carrier I dont think would matter at that point. It acts as a cut off for rounds feeding from the tube. The last one loaded doesn't actually get all the way into the tube.

 

[Redmist]

Well, the loading gate spring screw is tight, and the gate appears to be lined up correctly compared to the other 336's in the safe. There's simply nothing holding the round in the mag tube. I can depress the gate and look in with the action closed and the lifter does not seem to be high enough to hold rounds in the mag, but it's hard to know how high it should be to catch the rim. It that the only piece that holds rounds in the mag? If so, is there a fix short of replacing the lifter ? Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Well, the loading gate spring screw is tight, and the gate appears to be lined up correctly compared to the other 336's in the safe. There's simply nothing holding the round in the mag tube. I can depress the gate and look in with the action closed and the lifter does not seem to be high enough to hold rounds in the mag, but it's hard to know how high it should be to catch the rim. It that the only piece that holds rounds in the mag? If so, is there a fix short of replacing the lifter ? Thanks for your thoughts.

Leverdude or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong here but...

The carrier (lifter) only prevents the next round from entering the action as the "on deck" round is being fed into the bore. The first round in the tube is held in place by the lever and loading gate. If you load up one of your other 336's you'll see how the rim of the case pushes against the cut out of the loading gate. You'll also notice that just as soon as you start to work the lever, the round pops to the left (into the action). Likewise, at the very, very end (closing) of the lever, you can see the round pop to the right and against the gate.

If you look at this picture, #6 is the slant cut that helps hold the round in place with the lever gate (it also interacts with the carrier during cycling but that's not relevant):

I don't know if there is any difference in the 30-30 and .35 levers, I suspect not, so I would try swapping a lever from one of your other guns and see if it makes a difference. It's hard for me to imagine the lever has worn but it might help start isolating the problem.

 

[Leverdude]

Well, the loading gate spring screw is tight, and the gate appears to be lined up correctly compared to the other 336's in the safe. There's simply nothing holding the round in the mag tube. I can depress the gate and look in with the action closed and the lifter does not seem to be high enough to hold rounds in the mag, but it's hard to know how high it should be to catch the rim. It that the only piece that holds rounds in the mag? If so, is there a fix short of replacing the lifter ? Thanks for your thoughts.

Your welcome, this might take some time.

The lifter doesn't hold the first round in the tube. You cant push the round in far enough to get it in front of the lifter & if you could it obviously couldn't be blocking the tube, or you couldn't start the round at all. The lifter DOES act as a mag cut off, but not until you begin cycling the action. With the action closed the lifter is fully down & should be poking out the bottom of the trigger plate. If you watch that tab sticking out & open the action, you'll see it raise up as you open the action, THATS when it cuts off the tube.

When the action is closed the loading gate & the lever hold the round back. The case head shouldn't fit between the loading gate & lever. It should be visible at the front of the gate & the other side will be bearing on the lever about where the #6 arrow is in Eriks picture. As you swing the lever forward, the portion of the lever INSIDE the action swings rearward and the cartridge follows it into the action as the lifter comes up to prevent the NEXT round from coming in. When you close the action one of the last things to happen is the lever pushes the lifter down & if theres another round in the tube it'll "thump" into the action coming to rest against the loading gate/lever.

Now, I'v never looked at one but I'd imagine the 35 has a different gate than a 30/30 since it lacks a rim. If I'm thinking right it must have a nub or something on the inside to keep it from going by. Maybe the nub has worn or something. This is a new one for me & I'll have to go look at mine & see how Marlin coped with the 35 Rem case. Prior to that ALL 336s & previous medium action Marlins right back to the 1893, were chambered with calibers useing the same case head dimensions. Since, like Erik, I think they both use the same lever I'm thinking they dealt with it with the gate.

 

[Redmist]

E C and L D, I think you may have something here. Knowing my tinkeritis (related to Marlinitis), I may have inadvertantly or deliberately, swapped levers between guns and caused this problem. The rimmed / rimless idea makes sense. I'll do some swapping and report back.

 

[Redmist]

Today's lesson is: When disassembling and reassembling a 30-30 and a 35 Rem. 336 at the same time, put the right lever back in the right gun !!
Swapped levers between the 30-30 & 35 and the problem went away. Looked at them both, and noticed the correct lever for a 30-30 has diagonal mortise cut above the slant cut (#6 in EC's picture) - see my pic. It has to be for the rimmed case, because it's not there on the 35 lever. Live and learn...
Thanks to all for your replies, the braintrust here is invaluable.

 

[janott]

Playing with the family together eh! ;D ;D

 

[Eli Chaps]

Today's lesson is: When disassembling and reassembling a 30-30 and a 35 Rem. 336 at the same time, put the right lever back in the right gun !!
Swapped levers between the 30-30 & 35 and the problem went away. Looked at them both, and noticed the correct lever for a 30-30 has diagonal mortise cut above the slant cut (#6 in EC's picture) - see my pic. It has to be for the rimmed case, because it's not there on the 35 lever. Live and learn...
Thanks to all for your replies, the braintrust here is invaluable.

Do you own a 45-70? That cut is put into the 1895 levers to allow the large cases to be loaded. The levers are otherwise the same and a 45-70 lever will likely function in a 30-30 without issue. Is the 30-30 by any chance a BL or maybe that is a big loop lever? Just curious is all.

Either way, glad it was a simple fix and everything is working fine now.

 

[Leverdude]

Eriks right, thats a 45/70 lever & the cutout is for letting the rim by, the bigger 45/70 rim. They do work in 30/30's though. Initially I thought the 45/70 levers would not work in a 30/30 but that proved to be untrue. I guess however that the 35 crosses the line. You said the 35 is a 1963, How old is the 30/30

 

[Tomray]

Do you own a 45-70? That cut is put into the 1895 levers to allow the large cases to be loaded. The levers are otherwise the same and a 45-70 lever will likely function in a 30-30 without issue. Is the 30-30 by any chance a BL or maybe that is a big loop lever? Just curious is all.

Either way, glad it was a simple fix and everything is working fine now.

Eli,
More than likely is the fact that his two levers are different in the angular relationship of the area on top of the box that bumps the lower tang and the position of the tip.
That would account for the carrier sitting at a different height in the rifle.

BUT ADDITIONALLY,Yes, that lever he has is a 45-70 lever and again the 45-70 lever CAN"T hold the 35 case on the front of the loading spring, because the round slips into the loading clearance. The use of the 45-70 lever in the 35 cal rifle was really the cause of all his problems.

Some parts don't mix well.........the 45-70 lever will work fine in a 30-30........but won't work in a 35 Rem.

Redmist, Glad you got your rifles squared away...........


Tom

 

[lot_45]

Thanks for this detailed thread guys.

This is exactly why I am being very persistant in using a lever that is not an 1895 for my 35 Rem that is undergoing a conversion from pistol grip to straight grip.

As Tom put it "you dont want an issue when that trophy buck is standing in front of you"... well put.

Thanks again...

 

[Redmist]

The 35 is a '63, the 30-30 is a '66, and the 45-70 is a '07. So many Marlins, so little time bench space. Now I'll have to pull the 45-70 Cowboy lever and compare with what I thought was finally the correct lever back in the 30-30. Knew I shoulda' built a bigger shop...

 

[Tomray]

The 35 is a '63, the 30-30 is a '66, and the 45-70 is a '07. So many Marlins, so little time bench space. Now I'll have to pull the 45-70 Cowboy lever and compare with what I thought was finally the correct lever back in the 30-30. Knew I shoulda' built a bigger shop...

Redmist,

You may find the levers in your 45-70 and your 30-30 look the same.............

It was common practice to use a '95 lever in a 30-30, if the 30-30 levers were in short supply, and that happened because Marlin built many more 30-30's than '95...........Or, the planners issued the wrong P/N........OR, the Manufacturing cell didn't read the work order.

Bottom line is............45-70 levers interchange with 30-30 levers.

Tom

 

[Leverdude]

Did they make 45/70's back in 66 Tom? I thought they resurected it in the 70's but am going by a memory that dont always work so great anymore. I'm thinking he might have mixed things up more than we think or maybe somebody replaced the 30/30 lever at some point....
Sorry I didn't call you back, I didn't even see you called until yesterday. :-[

 

[Halwg]

Eriks right, thats a 45/70 lever & the cutout is for letting the rim by, the bigger 45/70 rim. They do work in 30/30's though. Initially I thought the 45/70 levers would not work in a 30/30 but that proved to be untrue. I guess however that the 35 crosses the line. You said the 35 is a 1963, How old is the 30/30

I've said this before and everyone said I was nuts, that they would interchange. I am glad you cleared that up, because I ran into the same issue with a 95 lever in a 35 Remington before. I just never knew the reason it wouldn't work.

 

[Tomray]

Did they make 45/70's back in 66 Tom? I thought they resurected it in the 70's but am going by a memory that dont always work so great anymore. I'm thinking he might have mixed things up more than we think or maybe somebody replaced the 30/30 lever at some point....
Sorry I didn't call you back, I didn't even see you called until yesterday. :-[

You're right!.........I can't say how he came to have a 45-70 lever with those dates.................

Re: the call.........No problem.....Next week Sunday is looking good for me too.........

Tom

 

[Eli Chaps]

Eli,
More than likely is the fact that his two levers are different in the angular relationship of the area on top of the box that bumps the lower tang and the position of the tip.
That would account for the carrier sitting at a different height in the rifle.

BUT ADDITIONALLY,Yes, that lever he has is a 45-70 lever and again the 45-70 lever CAN"T hold the 35 case on the front of the loading spring, because the round slips into the loading clearance. The use of the 45-70 lever in the 35 cal rifle was really the cause of all his problems.

Some parts don't mix well.........the 45-70 lever will work fine in a 30-30........but won't work in a 35 Rem.

Redmist, Glad you got your rifles squared away...........


Tom

Makes sense to me Tom, thanks.

Redmist, if your .35 and 30-30 are pistol gripped then it is possible someone along the way just changed out the lever on the 30-30 (if it is not your original gun I mean).