That is a pretty deep ring. Something is going on other than the seating die causing some deformation when you seat the bullet. I wouldn’t be concerned with the load you mentioned but it is odd.
Lyman bullet seating/crimping die .357 mag
My father in law gave me a lyman die set and some brass to throw some plinking rounds together for him, while loading up the first batch i noticed the seating portion of the die is leaving a ring around the bullet, shouldnt be a big deal just plinking ammo but i was curious if it was just the berrys bullets being a softer plated round or indicitive of a poorly setup die?
First .357 mags ive loaded and all my other dies are lee's Dont even have a gun to shoot them out of for testing but the load is mild 6.2gr of titegroup under a 125gr HP.
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being limited to 1250fps so not too concerned about blowing his gun up.
First .357 mags ive loaded and all my other dies are lee's Dont even have a gun to shoot them out of for testing but the load is mild 6.2gr of titegroup under a 125gr HP.
being limited to 1250fps so not too concerned about blowing his gun up.
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Agreed both the ring around the bullet and the load is odd dont think either will hurt, i never had to use the case mouth expander in my 9mm(only other straight wall i reload) maybe ill use it next batch of .357 i did crush a few cases seatimg the bullets.That is a pretty deep ring. Something is going on other than the seating die causing some deformation when you seat the bullet. I wouldn’t be concerned with the load you mentioned but it is odd.
I have loaded a bunch of those bullets using the Lee dies and never had that problem. If you crimp the load and then pull the bullet you will see a ring like that depending on how hard you crimp but not that far above the case of course. I guess if the die is for round nose bullets it might cause that if the neck is real tight.Agreed both the ring around the bullet and the load is odd dont think either will hurt, i never had to use the case mouth expander in my 9mm(only other straight wall i reload) maybe ill use it next batch of .357 i did crush a few cases seatimg the bullets.
Are you seating and crimping in one step? Try seating without crimp, see if the ring disappears. If it does, buy a dedicated crimp die and make crimping an additional step.
I use Lee Factory Crimp Dies for my reloading, but all the major manufacturers market a crimp die. Get a roll crimp die for revolver and Marlin rifle rounds.
I use Lee Factory Crimp Dies for my reloading, but all the major manufacturers market a crimp die. Get a roll crimp die for revolver and Marlin rifle rounds.
This could be a combination of 2 possible problems. First is choice of seating stem. Lyman die sets come with 2 and sometimes the one I assume will work best with bullet X doesn’t - often leaving a ring like that in plated or lead bullets. Second is die setup. My guess is that the crimp function is stopping the bullet from moving down into the case more before the case reaches the top of its travel.
This is a perfect example of why I prefer to seat in one step and crimp in a second, separate step. It is easier to set the dies up correctly when you aren’t trying to perform both functions at once. Clearly it is possible to set the seating die up to perform both functions - I just prefer not to.
This is a perfect example of why I prefer to seat in one step and crimp in a second, separate step. It is easier to set the dies up correctly when you aren’t trying to perform both functions at once. Clearly it is possible to set the seating die up to perform both functions - I just prefer not to.
Yes seating and crimping in 1 step,i did back off the crimp and it still marked the bullet, i have discovered i much prefer the lee dies over lyman, but these were free to me, i will try the expander next go around should lessen the force needed to seat the bullet...ive got 700 each .357 and 38 spec cases coming my way so ill get plenty of practice.Are you seating and crimping in one step? Try seating without crimp, see if the ring disappears. If it does, buy a dedicated crimp die and make crimping an additional step.
I use Lee Factory Crimp Dies for all my reloading, but all the major manufacturers market a crimp die. Ger a roll crimp die for revolver and Marlin rifle rounds.
He also sent over 600 .44mag cases but i have no dies for those. Nor any plans to aquire these calibers.
Completely agree with you regarding the seating and crimping in seperate steps.if it wasnt for the ring, i would say it wasnt horrible to setup and it does a nice job on the crimp.This could be a combination of 2 possible problems. First is choice of seating stem. Lyman die sets come with 2 and sometimes the one I assume will work best with bullet X doesn’t - often leaving a ring like that in plated or lead bullets. Second is die setup. My guess is that the crimp function is stopping the bullet from moving down into the case more before the case reaches the top of its travel.
This is a perfect example of why I prefer to seat in one step and crimp in a second, separate step. It is easier to set the dies up correctly when you aren’t trying to perform both functions at once. Clearly it is possible to set the seating die up to perform both functions - I just prefer not to.
What TinMan said. You will normally have a round nose stem and flat nose stem. Use accordingly.
Back out the die and seat the bullet to depth.
Back out the seating stem and lower die to affect roll crimp.
Lock the die properly
Run the properly seated round into the properly adjusted die.
Hold top of press stroke and run seating stem to bullet, lock it.
You should be ready to go.
Back out the die and seat the bullet to depth.
Back out the seating stem and lower die to affect roll crimp.
Lock the die properly
Run the properly seated round into the properly adjusted die.
Hold top of press stroke and run seating stem to bullet, lock it.
You should be ready to go.
I agree with the posts above. The seating stem should not be marking your bullets. I've loaded Berry's bullets without this problem.
I think TinMan diagnosed the problem. The die is probably crimping the bullet into the case before the bullet is fully pushed down inside. The seater die continues to try to advance the bullet but, since it has been crimped, it meets with a lot of resistance. The force required causes the seater stem to imprint a ring on the bullet.
This is probably also why you are getting come collapsed cases. The seater die can't advance the bullet past the crimp, and the case collapses. I expect this happens with the cases that are a few thousandths longer than the others.
Solution...
Back the crimp die off at least a full turn. Advance your seating stem until the bullets seat where you want them.
You can either seat all your rounds and crimp later, or...
Again adjust your die.
Back off on the seater stem. Then advance the seater die until you feel the case impinge on the crimp ring. Slowly advance the crimp die and raise the ram, adjusting until you are happy with the amount of crimp.
The seater stem should be above the bullet at this point.
With the ram in the up position, screw the seater stem down onto the seated bullet and make it snug. Lock it there.
Your die should now be adjusted to seat and crimp in one operation. As above, many of us prefer to seat and crimp in separate operations.
Two things will collapse cases in this process.
One is trying to apply too much crimp. The case mouth can only roll into the bullet so far before the case buckles. The other is trying to seat the bullet deeper when it has already been roll crimped. The bullet can't slide past the crimp and the case buckles.
I think TinMan diagnosed the problem. The die is probably crimping the bullet into the case before the bullet is fully pushed down inside. The seater die continues to try to advance the bullet but, since it has been crimped, it meets with a lot of resistance. The force required causes the seater stem to imprint a ring on the bullet.
This is probably also why you are getting come collapsed cases. The seater die can't advance the bullet past the crimp, and the case collapses. I expect this happens with the cases that are a few thousandths longer than the others.
Solution...
Back the crimp die off at least a full turn. Advance your seating stem until the bullets seat where you want them.
You can either seat all your rounds and crimp later, or...
Again adjust your die.
Back off on the seater stem. Then advance the seater die until you feel the case impinge on the crimp ring. Slowly advance the crimp die and raise the ram, adjusting until you are happy with the amount of crimp.
The seater stem should be above the bullet at this point.
With the ram in the up position, screw the seater stem down onto the seated bullet and make it snug. Lock it there.
Your die should now be adjusted to seat and crimp in one operation. As above, many of us prefer to seat and crimp in separate operations.
Two things will collapse cases in this process.
One is trying to apply too much crimp. The case mouth can only roll into the bullet so far before the case buckles. The other is trying to seat the bullet deeper when it has already been roll crimped. The bullet can't slide past the crimp and the case buckles.
Agree with all the comments about seating/crimping together. I used to get similar seating marks on my soft bullets in my early reloading days until I bought extra bullet seater stems that more closely conformed the the different bullet profiles that I have. I even modified some on a lathe (G job at work) or drill press (chuck 'em up in a home drill press and use a file to modify them) and they worked great.
You should write the instrictions for lyman, they have you setting the die then moving it 3/4 turn while backing out seating die 1/4 turn..What TinMan said. You will normally have a round nose stem and flat nose stem. Use accordingly.
Back out the die and seat the bullet to depth.
Back out the seating stem and lower die to affect roll crimp.
Lock the die properly
Run the properly seated round into the properly adjusted die.
Hold top of press stroke and run seating stem to bullet, lock it.
You should be ready to go.
I had the same problem with Berry's bullets in 9mm (.356") being slightly out of round so I bought a Lee Breech Lock Bullet Sizer kit---you size all the bullets and I found about 1 in 50 took some effort to push through--so they were out of round. This fixed my problem and is easy to use. Got it at Midway.My father in law gave me a lyman die set and some brass to throw some plinking rounds together for him, while loading up the first batch i noticed the seating portion of the die is leaving a ring around the bullet, shouldnt be a big deal just plinking ammo but i was curious if it was just the berrys bullets being a softer plated round or indicitive of a poorly setup die?
First .357 mags ive loaded and all my other dies are lee's Dont even have a gun to shoot them out of for testing but the load is mild 6.2gr of titegroup under a 125gr HP. View attachment 927423
View attachment 927422
being limited to 1250fps so not too concerned about blowing his gun up.
I do not know how much reloading experience you have, so please do not be offended with this replay. From the photo it appears that the bullet is taking a bit more pressure to seat than it ought to. But the issue could also be that the bullets are extremely soft. Curious if you are using the plug/chamfer die in the set. And if you are using the plug die, what does the plug measure. If the plug/chamfer die is set up properly the bullet ought to be inserted into the brass rather easily by hand. Also it appears that you have the wrong seating plug in the seating die that is causing that ring. I am not familiar with Lyman dies, but many die sets come with a couple of seating plugs for the various bullet configurations out there. I have seen this ring on some of the ammunition that I have reloaded as well. What I have done was removed the seating plug from the dies along with the stem that the seating plug is screwed into, chucked the seating plug and stem into a drill press and have polished off that sharp edge with some wet 400 grit sanding paper using WD 40 or an oil of some kind as lubricant while polishing that sharp edge off. I have also heard guys say that they used JB Weld inside of the seating plug and then made a mold out of the seating plug by using a bullet to squeeze out the excess JB Weld causing the seating plug to conform with the particular bullet they are seating. Hope this helps out for you. Please keep us updated.My father in law gave me a lyman die set and some brass to throw some plinking rounds together for him, while loading up the first batch i noticed the seating portion of the die is leaving a ring around the bullet, shouldnt be a big deal just plinking ammo but i was curious if it was just the berrys bullets being a softer plated round or indicitive of a poorly setup die?
First .357 mags ive loaded and all my other dies are lee's Dont even have a gun to shoot them out of for testing but the load is mild 6.2gr of titegroup under a 125gr HP. View attachment 927423
View attachment 927422
being limited to 1250fps so not too concerned about blowing his gun up.
This is my second reply to this thread. I should have read the entire thread before I did the first reply. If you are not using the expander plug that expands the mouth of the case and also puts a bell mouth on the mouth of the case, "this" is the major "part" of your problem. The second part of the problem is the wrong seating plug being used to seat the bullet. Combined, the issues are what is causing that ring in the bullet. As I wrote in a previous reply, using that expander/bell mouthing plug first ought to expand the case mouth so that the bullet can be pushed into the casing by hand. Without the plug die being used it is causing you to have to use too much pressure to seat the bullet. But... you also are using the wrong seating plug for the bullets you are seating. Also the very "last" operation that is done is the crimping, and... that comes after the bullet is seated. This is a very delicate operation because the bullet has to be seated in just the right depth as the brass is being crimped over the bullet. If the seating die is set too deep with a taper or roll crimp it will cause the sides of the case to either bulge or wrinkle. Also the overall length of your cases ought to be the same length, otherwise there is a possibility that due to a long casing the sync between the seated bullet and the roll crimp will be off causing a bulged or wrinkled case. There is a very fine line between getting the bullet seated properly and the roll crimp not being in the correct place. Presently I use a Lee Factory Crimp die which eliminates any issues with a roll crimp die. The Lee Factory Crimp die uses a process where the brass of the casing is squeezed in instead rolling the brass in. Due to this process a crimp can be placed anywhere a reloader wants to put a crimp and not have to worry about a cannelure groove or having all of your casings the same overall length. Using this die adds an extra step into the reloading process, however the added step is well worth the effort. Using the Lee Factory Crimp die produces perfect crimps every time and it eliminates all of the issues associated with a roll crimp die, especially on straight walled cases like the 45-70 and the .450 Bushmaster.Yes seating and crimping in 1 step,i did back off the crimp and it still marked the bullet, i have discovered i much prefer the lee dies over lyman, but these were free to me, i will try the expander next go around should lessen the force needed to seat the bullet...ive got 700 each .357 and 38 spec cases coming my way so ill get plenty of practice.
He also sent over 600 .44mag cases but i have no dies for those. Nor any plans to aquire these calibers.
Thanks for the reply, im not terribly experienced in my reloading venture. Ive got 1-2k reloads under my belt broken up between 9mm,5.56,.30-.30 and recently added .308 to the bench. All of those have been with lee dies i purchased new, this lyman set my F.I.L bought "from some guy" so im not even sure wha comes in the factory box, it did still have the instructions with it and i did not see mention of different seating plugs included in the set, though i have no doubts thats possibly part of the issue, i did try and setup the die according to instructions but im not 100% that was accomplished accordingly. this first batch sbould suffice and after i get some more brass ill tear that die down and take a peek.I do not know how much reloading experience you have, so please do not be offended with this replay. From the photo it appears that the bullet is taking a bit more pressure to seat than it ought to. But the issue could also be that the bullets are extremely soft. Curious if you are using the plug/chamfer die in the set. And if you are using the plug die, what does the plug measure. If the plug/chamfer die is set up properly the bullet ought to be inserted into the brass rather easily by hand. Also it appears that you have the wrong seating plug in the seating die that is causing that ring. I am not familiar with Lyman dies, but many die sets come with a couple of seating plugs for the various bullet configurations out there. I have seen this ring on some of the ammunition that I have reloaded as well. What I have done was removed the seating plug from the dies along with the stem that the seating plug is screwed into, chucked the seating plug and stem into a drill press and have polished off that sharp edge with some wet 400 grit sanding paper using WD 40 or an oil of some kind as lubricant while polishing that sharp edge off. I have also heard guys say that they used JB Weld inside of the seating plug and then made a mold out of the seating plug by using a bullet to squeeze out the excess JB Weld causing the seating plug to conform with the particular bullet they are seating. Hope this helps out for you. Please keep us updated.
Belling and neck expanding for .38 Special, also applies to .357 Mag or any straight case rimmed cartridge.
You are welcome. And... thank you for acknowledging the reply. Oftentimes someone will provide some good advice to a thread and the person who wrote the thread will not even acknowledge with a thumbs up like. There should be at least three dies in your set. The first due would be the resizing die. This one is pretty easy to set up as the die is set up to hit the top of the shell holder with a sight cam over on the press handle. I use a carbide resizing die to eliminate having to use case lubricant and the carbide die does a better job keeping the scratches out of your brass.Thanks for the reply, im not terribly experienced in my reloading venture. Ive got 1-2k reloads under my belt broken up between 9mm,5.56,.30-.30 and recently added .308 to the bench. All of those have been with lee dies i purchased new, this lyman set my F.I.L bought "from some guy" so im not even sure wha comes in the factory box, it did still have the instructions with it and i did not see mention of different seating plugs included in the set, though i have no doubts thats possibly part of the issue, i did try and setup the die according to instructions but im not 100% that was accomplished accordingly. this first batch sbould suffice and after i get some more brass ill tear that die down and take a peek.
Next the process of resizing/depriming/bell mouth is the next die is set up. I am not familiar with your die set, so this might be a little different than what you have in your set. This die deprimes your resized case, and at the same time plugs the mouth of the case with a plug that slightly opens the mouth of the case and also puts a small bell mouth on the edge of the case to prevent the casing from shaving the side of the bullet as it is being seated. This process has to be snuck up on slowly as to not put such a large bell mouth on the casing that it will not fit into the seating die. I screw this die down until it just hits the top of the shell holder. Next I run the sized case up into the die as I am screwing the depriming/plug/chamfer die down. Keep doing this process until the primer is removed, the mouth of the case has been opened with the plug and then the case mouth is starting to get a bell. The bell needs only to be .010-.015 thousandths of an inch over the dimension of the brass. Just enough so as to prevent the sharp edges of the case mouth from hitting the bullet as it is being seated. After this process the case has to be primed and charged with powder. I can only caution you that starting out and even after being a seasoned reloader a visual check on the powder is always a good idea. It is quite easy with the fast pistol powders to double or even triple charge a case with the fast burning powders. I have been reloading for 60+ years and still do this check when possible.
The last process in the reloading is seating and crimping the bullet into the case. When setting this die up there is a process. First put a charged case into the shell holder and run that case all the way up into the press. From there screw the crimp die into the press until it hits the top of the charged case. From this point, back the crimp/seating die out by about 1/2 turn and lock it there for now. Next drop the charged case down and place a bullet into the case and run it up into the backed off crimp die. Before you do this process, make certain that the seating stem with the attached seating plug are backed off enough so that they do not touch the top of the bullet. Once the charged case with the bullet inside of the case are up into the die start screwing the seating plug down until it hits the top of the bullet and stops. From this point it is a process of dropping the bullet out of the die, turning the seating plug down and seating the bullet to the desired overall length. Oftentimes seating the bullet so that the cannelure groove is sitting slightly above the mouth of the case. Once you have the desired seating depth back the seating stem/plug out at least two or three turns. Now.... unlock the seating die and ever so slightly sneak up on the seating depth of the seating die until you get the desired crimp. The desired seating depth is obtained by dropping the case with the seated bullet down enough to allow the seating die to be screwed down then running the bullet back up into the die again. As you are doing this you will feel the resistance of the casing being crimped in. Once you have the desired crimp on your bullet, run that bullet back up into the die, leave it there, then screw the seating stem/plug in until it hits the top of your bullet. With everything in place lock both the seating/crimp die in place as well as lock the seating stem/plug in place and you ought to be set to go. Hope this long reply isn't confusing and that it helps you with your reloading. Good luck with it. And.... please do remember to check the powder charges on your cases before you seat any bullets. A reloading block and good lighting is good for this part of the process.
OP:
Don't let it seem like it's overly complicated. Straight-cased pistol/Marlin rounds are among the easiest to reload. After doing it a short time, it becomes very familiar. You can set your dies, feel the bell, and know it's just right. Bullet seating pressure and smoothness will alert you to any anomalies. I always recommend making the crimp as the 4th step, it eliminates adjustment difficulties and gives one more opportunity to inspect the work and make sure it is 110% correct.
There's a lot of sound advice above. Take your time, find a rhythm, let muscle memory guide your reloading, stay alert, and have fun. Good luck!
Don't let it seem like it's overly complicated. Straight-cased pistol/Marlin rounds are among the easiest to reload. After doing it a short time, it becomes very familiar. You can set your dies, feel the bell, and know it's just right. Bullet seating pressure and smoothness will alert you to any anomalies. I always recommend making the crimp as the 4th step, it eliminates adjustment difficulties and gives one more opportunity to inspect the work and make sure it is 110% correct.
There's a lot of sound advice above. Take your time, find a rhythm, let muscle memory guide your reloading, stay alert, and have fun. Good luck!
@Alibiiv,@rob42049 and everyone else. thanks guys, i charge a case then seat the bullet before it ever leaves my hand so overcharging chances are minimal but sound advice.will be refering back to this thread when i tool up for .357 again.
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