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Has anyone had any luck loading the 405 grain Remington bullet? I bought a couple of bags from Cabelas a while back and when I went to load them in trimmed to book length brass, the two cannelures disapeared into the case mouth and the shoulder that the bullet has sits under the mouth making a crimp useless. I even tried the Lee factory crimp die. To load them to the book length, I think it was 2.550 so they will cycle it put the mouth of the case to far forward on the bullet, and even crimped you could push them in with your thumb. I have to be doing something wrong! Has anyone had the same issue with this bullet? Thanks.
 

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Good afternoon & Welcome !
Can be fun sometimes...
Check your "trim to length". 2.100 is in my old Lyman book. If your trimmed length was something else try that.
Measure the bullet´s crimp distance to the nose. I would not be surprised IF it is .50 +.
Me.. with a new bullet I make up a dummy cartrige and see if it will cycle. Start at the shortest nose/crimp groove Some actions are foregiving.. others well they just do not have any more room past that 2.55 length. If it cycles cleanly you are blessed with one of the better assembles. If it will not you then can begin the process of shortening the OAL until it will. Then you know how much brass you need to trim.
Sometimes with long nosed bullets there is the need to Shorten the brass more than the book says. This is how I shoot LONG cast in my leverguns. You just need to clearly mark the brass (Any felt pen to the case head) so you know what you are loading.
But do not despare... your Marlin will work.
 

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Welcome to the forum?
Are you in AK, (Or is the "ak" in akshooting AK-47s) & if so where? I'm in Kenai.
I don't have any of those bullets handy, but used to load them in my 450 Marlin. As I recall there is a shoulder forward of the crimp groves that was put their for the Marlin. Sounds like you are expanding your brass too much maybe. Even with no crimp I cant push the bullet in with my thumb once they are in the case more than 1/8" or so. I just bell the mouth enough to get them started. Never had a problem.
 

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I had the same problem the first time I tried loading them since I was accustomed to the Speer 400 gr jacketed bullet. Vance pegged it, you must be expanding your case too much because that is exactly what I was doing and just slightly belling the case mouth after resizing did the trick. Also you will find the crimp shoulder just forward or the top crimp grove that is perfect for the Marlin.


BTW, these bullets have performed great for me and now except for cast I don't shoot anything else, for the price why would I? ;D
 

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I've loaded & shot hundreds, maybe a thousand, of these things through two different 1895's. Accurate & reliable. Didn't do a lot of hunting with them, but sent one through both shoulders of a mule deer doe at about 70 yards. Nice quick drop and surprisingly little meat damage.

Using standard RCBS dies - just set a roll crimp right over that little step (for lack of a better word) on the bullet. Make sure you are properly re-sizing the brass cases, even if new, just to get enough case tension to hold the bullet.

Might even spring for a box of factory loaded Remington 405 ammo just to help you get your seating & crimp die adjusted properly. Both by giving an eyeball to how the factory does it, and to use as a gauge for setting up your dies.

It's a pretty good bullet, well worth the price. I think with a little more work on your dies you'll be loading those things just fine.

Regards, Guy
 

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You might want to use a slow powder like 4895 that fills the case with a lightly compressed charge.That will keep the bullet from moving farther into the case from recoil.the august 2007 handloader states that H-322,varget,AA2015,vitt-133,3031 and others fill the case also.I have had very good accuracy with Vitt-133.H-322 and 2015 is easier to find and works very well also.4895 gives a softer kick and accurate too.
 

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M700 said:
I've loaded & shot hundreds, maybe a thousand, of these things through two different 1895's. Accurate & reliable. Didn't do a lot of hunting with them, but sent one through both shoulders of a mule deer doe at about 70 yards. Nice quick drop and surprisingly little meat damage.

Using standard RCBS dies - just set a roll crimp right over that little step (for lack of a better word) on the bullet. Make sure you are properly re-sizing the brass cases, even if new, just to get enough case tension to hold the bullet.

Might even spring for a box of factory loaded Remington 405 ammo just to help you get your seating & crimp die adjusted properly. Both by giving an eyeball to how the factory does it, and to use as a gauge for setting up your dies.

It's a pretty good bullet, well worth the price. I think with a little more work on your dies you'll be loading those things just fine.

Regards, Guy

Thousands..Dang!!!!
Thousands..Dang!!!!

How do they compare to what you hunt with?

Jayco ;D
 

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I just load them up & crimp right behind that step. Factory Rem ammo has a crimp behind the bullet. Havent done it in awhile but if I load them hot I crimp in the same place with a LFC die.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Great information guys thanks,
I am in Alaska, Dillingham that is, you wouldn't happen to be that Vance would you? Anyway, I measured a bullet and it looks like about .545 from the top edge of Cann. to the nose, so that plus the 2.100 trim length puts me about .095 to long, and trim my cases back is what I guess I will do, I use Redding dies, and prefer them, the size die is set at the shellholder on my Co-ax press, and I literally hate to work brass too much, I put just enough bell to let the bullet in, usually less for the jacketed than the cast, and the one thing I noticed about the Redding dies is that they leave the top portion of the .45-70 case just a bit undersized, you can actually see it until you seat a bullet, and that will push it back out to normal, I thought that was a sure thing when I saw that, I didn't figure anything would slip, I have loaded Cast 405's, 300 grain TSX's used on a Moose, and the 350 Hornadys and had good luck with all those, just can't get these Remington pills squared away. I think trimming some brass down is probably the quickest solution, I wish the bullets were still 18 bucks a hundred like when I bought them! Thanks for all the discussion, it is all helpful.
 

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M700 said:
I've loaded & shot hundreds, maybe a thousand, of these things through two different 1895's. Accurate & reliable. Didn't do a lot of hunting with them, but sent one through both shoulders of a mule deer doe at about 70 yards. Nice quick drop and surprisingly little meat damage.

Using standard RCBS dies - just set a roll crimp right over that little step (for lack of a better word) on the bullet. Make sure you are properly re-sizing the brass cases, even if new, just to get enough case tension to hold the bullet.

Might even spring for a box of factory loaded Remington 405 ammo just to help you get your seating & crimp die adjusted properly. Both by giving an eyeball to how the factory does it, and to use as a gauge for setting up your dies.

+1 also like other posts use a load that fills the case to the base of the bullet which will also support the bullet and prevent the bullet from backing into the case.
You will notice on Rem. Factory Ammo that they but a crimp into the case below the base of the bullet which will prevent the bullet from backing into the case. YOU can't do that so either the bullet has to be supported by powder or a bullet with a crimping groove in the correct place must be used.

It's a pretty good bullet, well worth the price. I think with a little more work on your dies you'll be loading those things just fine.

Regards, Guy
 

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Ask Randy Garrett

I checked in with the Marlin forum and noticed the debate you have been having with those that like the 405 grain Remington bullet for elk hunting. I'm a bit surprised by the following the Remington bullet has, as my experience with the bullet was very poor. Our first 45-70 load (offered in 1989) used that bullet at a conservative 1700-fps, not the super fast 2000-fps I read about on the forum. At 1700-fps we had numerous reports of bullet breakup and failure to penetrate when used against elk. As a consequence, I dropped the load and moved to proper hard cast bullets, and our customers never reported bullet failures again.
Jayco
 

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jaycocreek said:
M700 said:
I've loaded & shot hundreds, maybe a thousand, of these things through two different 1895's. Accurate & reliable. Didn't do a lot of hunting with them, but sent one through both shoulders of a mule deer doe at about 70 yards. Nice quick drop and surprisingly little meat damage.

Using standard RCBS dies - just set a roll crimp right over that little step (for lack of a better word) on the bullet. Make sure you are properly re-sizing the brass cases, even if new, just to get enough case tension to hold the bullet.

Might even spring for a box of factory loaded Remington 405 ammo just to help you get your seating & crimp die adjusted properly. Both by giving an eyeball to how the factory does it, and to use as a gauge for setting up your dies.

It's a pretty good bullet, well worth the price. I think with a little more work on your dies you'll be loading those things just fine.

Regards, Guy

Thousands..Dang!!!!
Thousands..Dang!!!!

How do they compare to what you hunt with?

Jayco ;D
I'll try again. The last post on the subject dissapeared.

+1 on the above! But also after the bullet has been crimped over the HUMP? it must be supported at the rear (base) there are two ways of doing that;

#1 Use case filling loads that support the base of the bullet.

OR

#2 Use a crimp in the brass as Remington does to prevent the bullet from backing into the brass.

Since you don't have the ability to crimp the case you can only use the powder case filling method OR try a different bullet with the crimp groove in the correct place for use in the .45-70 Marlin.

Hip
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I do like my 405 Meister bullets for sure, just wanted to shoot these as well without compromising my brass stock if possible, if not, I guess i can give up 25 or so. Sure is a neat cartrige though.
 

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akshooting said:
Great information guys thanks,
I am in Alaska, Dillingham that is, you wouldn't happen to be that Vance would you? Anyway, I measured a bullet and it looks like about .545 from the top edge of Cann. to the nose, so that plus the 2.100 trim length puts me about .095 to long, and trim my cases back is what I guess I will do, I use Redding dies, and prefer them, the size die is set at the shellholder on my Co-ax press, and I literally hate to work brass too much, I put just enough bell to let the bullet in, usually less for the jacketed than the cast, and the one thing I noticed about the Redding dies is that they leave the top portion of the .45-70 case just a bit undersized, you can actually see it until you seat a bullet, and that will push it back out to normal, I thought that was a sure thing when I saw that, I didn't figure anything would slip, I have loaded Cast 405's, 300 grain TSX's used on a Moose, and the 350 Hornadys and had good luck with all those, just can't get these Remington pills squared away. I think trimming some brass down is probably the quickest solution, I wish the bullets were still 18 bucks a hundred like when I bought them! Thanks for all the discussion, it is all helpful.
I'd check & see how long a catrige your gun will cycle before you start trimming brass special for it. Mine will do 2.590 all day long.
 

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akshooting said:
I do like my 405 Meister bullets for sure, just wanted to shoot these as well without compromising my brass stock if possible, if not, I guess i can give up 25 or so. Sure is a neat cartrige though.
I load Meister & Lazer cast in the same cases as the Rem. I'm not certain of my trim length though, I use a Lee case length gage & dont remember how long they end up. Never had any trouble with the bullets setting back regardless of the load.
 

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akshooting said:
Great information guys thanks,
I am in Alaska, Dillingham that is, you wouldn't happen to be that Vance would you?
Nope, not that Vance. I'm in Kenai.
He sounds a lot more famous than I am ;D ;)

Good luck with the Remingtons...
 

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"Thousands..Dang!!!!

How do they compare to what you hunt with?

Jayco"


Well howdy Jayco! I hunted plenty with the .45/70 Marlin, just didn't get a lot of shot opportunities while carrying it. Sometimes that happens I guess. Actually I said I'd loaded hundreds of the 405 gr Remington bullets and fired them through two different 1895's. Might have been as many as a thousand, I couldn't quite remember if I went through that entire lot that I bought or not - the rest might have been sold to the fellow who bought my .45/70 Marlin about a year ago. He got a LOT of loading components with that rifle...

Only zapped that one mulie doe in all those nine years of hunting off and on with the .45/70 Marlin. After all that time, I figured I'd just go with an old .30-30 instead since mostly I hunt deer. Never know though - I did develop an abiding respect for the big old cartridge and kept one of my die sets, just in case I decide to get another one.

Last few years you're quite right - I mostly have hunted with a .25-06 Rem 700 - it seems appropriate for my open country mule deer hunting and I've taken five mule deer in the past five years with it, so I guess it's working out for me.

Before hunting with the .45/70, I mostly hunted with a traditional .50 muzzle loader and big fat 385 gr Great Plains bullets - nailed a couple of mule deer with that too.

And before that it was a .30-06 1917 Enfield. Of course there have been Marlin lever guns in my life going back to the early 1960's or so.

So... What do you want me to compare it to? Or, just what is your point Jayco?

All I'm trying to do here is help a fellow who is having a little trouble loading these 405 Remingtons for his .45/70. Seems reasonable to me that with the experience of successfully loading & shooting a mess of 'em, that I might be able to shed a little light on the subject for him.

Regards, Guy
 

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akshooting said:
Has anyone had any luck loading the 405 grain Remington bullet? I bought a couple of bags from Cabelas a while back and when I went to load them in trimmed to book length brass, the two cannelures disapeared into the case mouth and the shoulder that the bullet has sits under the mouth making a crimp useless. I even tried the Lee factory crimp die. To load them to the book length, I think it was 2.550 so they will cycle it put the mouth of the case to far forward on the bullet, and even crimped you could push them in with your thumb. I have to be doing something wrong! Has anyone had the same issue with this bullet? Thanks.
Don't bell the case neck too much, back the stem out some... For seating: You could cheat and insert a Remington Factory round in your seater die and adjust it down accordingly.
Crank it down until it touches and then you are in the ball park for your hand load.
 

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M-700

It is all in fun and when I see a Rem 405 thread I always have to throw in a ribbing to someone who uses them.You know I have from the beginning at Marlin Talk then here.The Rem 405 and Jayco just go together. ;D Heck,Gurn even sent me some which I use for fishing sinkers now.They work quite well for suckers so far.

Jayco ;D
 

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This bullet used to be my primary hunting bullet (for deer and hog). I haven't used this bullet in a while as I switched to cast.

I got very good results with IMR 3031. You can fill the case up to the base of the bullet for a slightly compressed charge. My reasoning was the bullets in the magazine could not back into the case under recoil.

Corbi
 
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