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Sounds like a plan, I for one have been tempted with that conversion myself. Just wonder if the end result in the real world would do that much better. Sure would make brass easier to come by what with all the .308 out there that could be used.
 

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It would be neat but I wonder something? If you cut a .358 Win barrel back to 20" from the 26 for the listed velocity in that article you are running about 2250. I can get pretty close to there handloading the .35 Rem.

And since most .358 factory loads use pointy bullets, making this a reloaders rifle, is the neat factor worth it?
 

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Montanan, there are a few things you need to know. First, some of the velocity data is a bit suspect in that article. The 336 action is not up to the pressures of the .358 Winchester, IMO, and don't be misled by the fact that .307 and .356 pressures are listed at 52,000 CUP. This leads to the mistaken assumption that this is the same pressure as the .358 runs at. All CUP means is the figure for pressure is undefined, and most likely much lower than .358 levels (Keep in mind that psi figures have never been published for the .356). Remember-traditional leverguns have poor safety features in the event of a blown primer, and you need more margin in working pressure. You should consider equalling .356 velocities and no more with the 336. Most likely, this is around 46,000 psi, and plenty high enough. The true .358 loads go well past that.

Documented firings of high pressure loads in rear locking guns such as the Marlin and SMLE show short case life and head separations when they are loaded to bolt gun levels. This is why the leverguns are loaded to lower levels in the first place. There is just too much spring in the bolt to withstand 62,000 psi, which is front locking boltgun pressure. It should be properly confined to guns of that type.

Finally, the other thing the article neglects to tell you is that none of the 200 RN's or 250 grain bullets will work through the action. This is because the overall length of the cartridge must be below 2.57 inches, and all of the 200 RN's and 250's exceed that when crimped in the cannelure in the .358 case. Since bullet diameter gets smaller ahead of the cannelure, crimping in a new location closer to the bullet nose is not an option, because there would be a gap between bullet and case mouth, reducing neck tension. You can't crimp effectively on reduced bullet diameter. Notice how you didn't see any other bullet than his 147 grain 9mm bullet (a crappy choice for those velocities, unquestionably. Talk about a blow up bullet) loaded in the case?

If you decide to check my assertion and try loading a round over 2.57", be prepared to remove the lever and bolt to get the round out of the gun.

I suppose you could enlarge the ejection port, but the carrier may need to be modified too. He didn't say squat about that, and I suspect there's a lot of other things he hasn't told us. I would be very, very interested in case life produced with his loads (notice that he didn't give us any?) Also, like Bman said, the claimed velocity was for a 26 inch barrel in his table. A 20 inch will be substantially less. His pictured gun was a 20 inch. If he's equalling Whelen velocities with 200 grain bullets in a 20 inch barrelled 336 he's a fool.

If you like the 180 and 220 Speer, they will work. If you like those bullets and are willing to load to .356 levels, then you may be in business. If you want to duplicate .358 pressure levels and use 200 RN's or 250's, you're pursuing a dead end. Case life will suck, and you'll be beating the gun to death. Your eyeballs could be next.

Sorry to sugarcoat it like this, but that article is one of the most misleading bits of drivel posted anywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
35remington

I suspected that myself, and do suspect that the writer was using taylored down handloads. I'm considering this with my Springfield bolt action only right now as a change up from .243 Win to the .358 Win only after much advisement would I make such a change. I'm still working with my .35 Remington which I'm very pleased with so far... just may find out just how pleased this week-end, as I don't think my back is up to carrying my heavy Rolling Block for two days in the back country.

I have condensed your writtings on the .35 Remington down to 35 pages :lol:

The only lever action rifle I can find at presant is the Browning BLR in .358 Winchester.

This would make a fine elk, moose, black bear rifle.... but then again so would the .444 Marlin, 45-70 and the .450 Marlin which are alread produced by Marlin :D
 

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Sir, If I ever own one of those "other" brands of levergun it will be a BLR in .358. That is about as ideal a combo for most anything I would ever hunt and big enough to get me out of a crack so to speak. Good to extended ranges and everything. BTW I'm sure you know that the BLR bolt is front locking and some have called it a lever actuated bolt action. :D

I also noted that guy really slanted things for that article. Like a 30-30 is really only good to 150 yds. Maybe a factory loaded .35 rem but even then...
Also personally I doubt that 147 gr pistol would be any more effective past 150 yards than a 150 gr 35 Rem bullet.

Still last year when I first read that article I got a little excited.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bman said:
Sir, If I ever own one of those "other" brands of levergun it will be a BLR in .358. That is about as ideal a combo for most anything I would ever hunt and big enough to get me out of a crack so to speak. Good to extended ranges and everything. BTW I'm sure you know that the BLR bolt is front locking and some have called it a lever actuated bolt action. :D Brian
Here ya go Browning BLR .358 Win on Gunsamerica but that price :shock:
 

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Yup, the price for any of Brownings stuff ain't cheap. It's the only thing holding me back from getting that BLR. Just have to refinish it to a matte finish, and give that gloss the boot.

The BLR in .358W can be had for $650 ordered from Walmart, and the 336C in .35REM would be $365 ... almost 2:1 difference. Of course, if you really want a lever chambered in .358, and I do, ... the tug-of-war continues...

Here is a link to a good article on the .358W http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm
 

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****** I am waiting for some 250 grn 35rem bullets nominally sized .359 from Beartooth so I can complete the wildcat I am building. A 444 with a 35 barrel. Need the bullets to do the dummies for the reemer builder. Hope to be doing it soon. If it works out properly it should have 356/358 without pressure issues. I have a retired gunsmith friend working on a set up to make cutting the Marlin square threads a little easier. If all goes well I hope to have some testing in by the 1st of the year.
 

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Sure-shot, I recall seeing your posts on the shootersforum, and will be looking forward to your reports on that fun project. Are you using 444 brass for the 35-444 cartridge?
 

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Montanan,

A friend of mine fell for this article. I have a 35 Whelen. The article is misleading. The 356 & 358 are both great cartridges but they will not equal the Whelen.

He had a new 35 Rem rechambered and is very disapointed with his rifle.

The speer bullets will be your bullet of choice.

I would optimize the loads for the 35 Rem. The difference in velocity isn't worth the cost. If you neeeed a 356 you can still find one used.

Corbi
 

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Yes I am using the 444 case. I have a 356 but if you have watched the posts three of these sold for $1270-$1550 on auction. No longer a reasonable price for those who don't have one.
 
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