Marlin Firearms Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was walking the dog in the field this morning when I had this amusing thought!.....

......now there are these new .17 calibre 'particle weapons'...they make my .22WMR a 'big bore'...(well, it's all relative!)

....so that just confirms my taste in rifles....gotta big a big bore.....so my 45/70 now has 'big' little brother in the rack next to him!

Safe shooting

Limey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
Hunting in france? How many frenchmen can you get a day? How do you get them when they can hide so good and run away so fast? Sounds like you have a couple of nice rifles to hunt with.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,841 Posts
:shock: :shock: :shock: :wink: :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,048 Posts
Sarge.. he needs a Shawnee Trip :lol:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,406 Posts
Limey,would you go through the Gun Laws in the UK --simple explanation Please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Uk gun laws

Well, Intrepid wizards.......we have been living out here in French countryside for over four and a half years now.....please check out our website at www.la-janais.com to see why!.....so I am a little off speed of the current laws.

However....just one of the many reasons we moved here was the UK government virtually banned all shooting and made us legitamate shooters hand in our guns for peppercorn compensation........I was personally £2,000 out of pocket so Prime Minister Blair could win more votes!

.....many other shooters and gun shops were even more out of pocket.The ban followed two terrible events where one guy went mad with an AK47 and killed about 15 people in one small town and another incident where another guy entered a school and gunned down a large number of primary school children and their teachers with a Beretta 9mm.

As far as I can remember:

All full bore semi auto rifles and carbines are banned

All handguns of any calibre are banned....(the UK Olympic small bore team have to keep and practise with their weapons abroad!...I heard the other day the UK government are having to think very hard how they will let the shooting events take place in the UK for the 2012 Olympic Games because of their ban !!!!!)

Single shot and manual fed (ie bolt or lever) rifles are allowed

Auto shotguns are limited to a maximum capacity of 3 rounds

Double barrelled and single shot shotguns are allowed

Air rifles for sport or leasure shooting are limited to 12 foot pounds of muzzle energy

Air rifles with greater muzzle energy need a speacial police license...these are normally used by game keepers to keep down rodents

The application and requirements for gaining a Firearms or a shotgun license...they are two seperate licenses....so if you want a shotgun and a rifle you need two licenses and naturally two lots of payment!....plus unless your job requires a gun, ie farmer, gamekeeper, you must belong to a recognised gun club (more expense)....with a proven track record of attendance and good behaviour.

You must have a steel safe hidden in your home that the police come and inspect and if it is not deemed strong or secure enough your application is rejected.

Hope this is of interest......guard what you guy's have well......there is always some vote hunter out there looking for some low hanging, easy pick fruit to boost their figures and popularity!

Safe shooting,

Limey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,048 Posts
Limey.. I take it you own that??? Awesome
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
106 Posts
Just to clear a few points on Uk gun laws, you can have a semi Auto that holds more than 3 shots on your firearms, air rifles above 12lb are availabile, but most of us prefer .22 rimfires. The hunting laws are far easier than France. If you want a gun in the Uk and are a legally binding person it is not a problem, I own .22,.243.30.30 marlin :lol: and 3 shotguns because that is all I want. My Friend dave who I shot with today has .17, 2no .22,2no.223,.308 and several shotguns because that is what he wants. Sadly can,t have handguns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hunting laws easier in the UK?

Hiya Taff,

You may be correct from one view point since in the UK there is no obligation or exam by law following your acquisition of a firearm/air weapon before you can go out to hunt.

Here in France it's true you have to take a compulsory theory and practical exam to gain your French hunting permit .....as an aside, it's extremely good in forcing you to learn more of the French language as it is all in French naturally!.....but it also forces every hunter to be able to recognise all the different species that are both huntable and protected plus their respective breeding cycles, habitats, behaviours, damage they cause, aspects of safety and understanding of the ballistics of the different weapon types used in hunting

IMHO having hunted in the UK with some people who left me feeling uneasy about their understanding of the creatures they were hunting and even worse their lack of consideration for safety of other hunters out in the field…you probably
know a few ‘Weekend Warrior’ types yourself…..I think the hunting exam over here is
a very positive thing that ensures at a minimum, a common standard of ability, understanding and responsibility when you are out with a gun in your hand
which helps with the interaction between pro and anti hunters in the community
as all the anti’s know at least any hunter in France has had to prove they know what they are doing with that gun. In addition every hunters must be insured against 3rd party damage and injuries and there are hunting police who can stop you anytime you are out hunting and demand to see your hunting permit…failure to produce a valid permit can result in confiscation of your gun, hunting equipment, even your car and more serious transgressions can result in the loss of your driving license, big fines and ultimately a prison sentence….all good incentives to encourage responsible use of your hard earnt priviledge to hunt and shoot.

But I do know that after gaining your French hunting permit buying, keeping and selling of any weapons within the recognized category of hunting weapons, loosely, that covers nearly every rifle of a non military caliber (except full autos and mag capacities greater than 10 rounds) it is up to you what and when you buy and how many rounds to buy or keep at any one time. The police do not have to go out and vet the land you shoot over. If you want to buy more guns…..no need to get police approval, no need to get one off and one on approvals, change of caliber etc etc…..so a far more user friendly system once you have proved you are capable to belong to it….far less big brother….all weapons are registered with the police at point of purchase either by the dealer if you buy at a shop or by the seller and buyer if it is a private deal.

Am I right in guessing your greater than 3 shot semi auto is a large capacity shotgun? I used to do practical shotgun, pistol and rifle shooting back in the UK as well as target, clay shooting and hunting so you are correct that you can have a semi auto shotgun of greater than 3 rounds but then it is classified as a Firearm and not a shotgun which means tighter restrictions on ownership and the places you can use it.….and it cannot legally be used for any hunting as I believe it is law that no shotgun can have a greater capacity than 3 rounds in total.

As I said, it is quite a while since I was a legal gun owner back in the UK….so I have forgotten or am very rusty on some of the legislation and I know it has changed a lot since I left the country but I do know that since I left the UK the number of illegal guns and gun related crimes has drastically risen so the governments draconian actions against legitimate and law abiding shooters was and has been counter productive.

I am glad that shooting sports still survive in some limited forms back in the UK, I hope you continue to enjoy it for as long as it gives you pleasure…I know I enjoy it far more over here as it is still very much an accepted and integrated part of the culture and not viewed as vulgar and antisocial behaviour.by the unknowing and uninformed.

Sorry to have rambled on for so long….as you can probably guess I am passionate about shooting and my freedom as a law abiding citizen to participate in it.What is it those Ruger stickers you used to get when you bought one of their guns said….’If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns’….IMHO that is exactly what and is happening in the UK.

Lastly, it is still possible to own and use pistols over here.

Okay, okay….I am off my hobbie horse now!

Safe shooting

Limey

PS…for Sarge and Gunjunkie

Yes that is our place….sold up everything back in the UK, jumped ship from the rat race and are now scratching a living running our own small holiday business ….but we are enjoying being our own bosses and being able to share real quality time together while we are still healthy enough to be able to do so…..our pockets are empty but our hearts are full!

Sarge….my .22WMR is a Winchester 9422, scoped for rabbits and the .45/70 is a 1895GG, that is unscoped as French wild boar hunting is VERY close up so a scope is of little advantage…(also a very good alibi for the misses!!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,048 Posts
Awesome Place Limey .. Awesome for sure..

You and Taff both need to move to the USA
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
106 Posts
Hi Limey
I have meet many weekend warriors, mainly target and pigeon shooters :D, you can use multishoot shotguns for vermin and yes they are classified as a firearm, went on a keepers day on a very large estate one year where the 5 keepers all turned out with 7 and 5 shoot semi,s. Hunting tests seem a good thing until you look at the statistics we have the least number of accidents per shooter than the rest of europe, but I think this will change with all the lamping that is going on these days. But I would like to see a basic safety test here. We now have deer courses for what there worth if you want to take them, but having meet people who have taken them and passed I would not waste my money if I was starting out shooting again. Today I took a meat hygiene test which is the latest thing from the EEC, do you have to have one in France ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
Taff, was that a BASC run course for your food hygiene test?
We are thinking about doing one on our little shoot, but the thought of being screwed for £120.00 by our own shooting organisation makes me want to spit.
I think a lot of deer and other game are going to find their way onto the tables of restaurants by way of the back door, whilst at the same time a lot of game dealers are going to go out of business. :(

Sarge, it isn’t too hard to get most of what you want if you have kept your nose clean. I have just sold my .36 black powder revolver and now have just
.22rf Marlin 39a
.22rf Sako Finnfire
.22rf BRNO Semi-auto
.22rf Anschutz Match rifle (model1913)
.22rf Anschutz ( match 64)
.17hmr CZ American
.243 Win Tikka T3
12g S/S Chas Osborne hammer gun
12g S/S T. Osborne hammer gun
12g S/S AYA #4
and I am soon getting another old hammergun to add to my collection.
Not much by your standards, although I do know friends who have many more rifles than I could shake a stick at. 8)

What Taff says about shooting tests is absolutely true, as is easily seen by looking at the number of accidents our European shooters have compared to our own, which, apart from a couple of bloody stupid incidents last year, are almost unknown.

Having said that, it still doesn’t stop the gun-grabbers from screaming blue murder every time some criminal commits a crime. :roll:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
Tenex,
Not much by my standards, you say? You set my standards too high. That is an impressive collection by anyones standards.

This is an interesting thread and I have enjoyed reading it. I hope some more folks will chime in with more info.

Most states here have hunter safety courses mostly aimed at kids. Old fellers like me don't have to take them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
Safety courses can be a double edged sword, as can be seen by some of the results on the continent.
In Britain most youngsters are bought up with a shooting relative, and almost always have to serve a sort of apprenticeship before being let loose with a gun. As a result they have a built in knowledge that has been drummed in, and because of this we do have very few accidents.
On the European mainland though the story is often very different, with new shooters simply going on a safety course, passing it and then going on to buy a gun, with very little field craft, very little knowledge of shooting game or vermin, and almost no knowledge of what their new toy is really capable of. And as a result they do tend to have more accidents than we do. :shock:
So! Which s best, a shooting test or a few years of learning from someone who can show you all they know :wink:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,406 Posts
Do the laws you have explainded apply to BP Weaponary?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,020 Posts
Hello Wiz. Long time since I’ve heard from you.
The laws on Black Powder pistols are a little more relaxed than CF pistols inasmuch as you can own a BP pistol on your firearms certificate, which is a section 1, whereas CF pistols have all been placed on what is know as section 5. Which means that they are restricted to people who can obtain a section 5 certificate; virtually no-one amongst Joe Public.
There have been a couple of cases recently though where a couple of deer stalkers have applied for, and received, section 5 certificates which have allowed then to buy .44 mag GF handguns for the humane dispatch of wounded deer. This was fought vigorously by the police in their area’s, but the decision to grant them was upheld by the courts.

Other than that Black Powder rifles aren’t allowed for shooting deer because they don’t tend to achieve the legally required power levels of –
2400 fps AND 1750 ftlbs ME (Scotland)
or-
1700ftlbs ME (England & Wales).
We have even had the ridiculous thinking that a 700 Nitro-Express using a 700grn bullet would not be considered powerful enough for deer in Scotland……….because it only produced a velocity of 2200fts!!!!!!!!
I daresay there must be someone using a 45-75 (or similar) with BP loads for deer somewhere in the country, but I don’t know of anyone.
And then there is the law on “Expanding ammo”, which has to be applied for and placed on your FAC (firearms certificate). There have been problems with shooters wishing to shoot big game in Africa, who have been told that they cannot obtain hollow-pointed ammo’ for their big game guns in this country. Instead they have been told that they have to buy solid bullets to practice and zero their rifles with, and then to try and obtain HP ammo when they get to their destination in Africa. How many of us would want to re-zero their rifles and try to learn about bullet drop with new ammo, a couple of days before going out to hunt dangerous game!!!!!!!!!
So you see it is really not practical to try and gain permission to hunt in this country with black powder guns, as there are too many obstacles to overcome to make it worth while bothering.
Other than that BP guns are fairly easy to own if you use Pyrodex, because the same storage rules apply as Nitro powders.
Black Powder itself though requires yet another licence to buy and store.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/blackp.pdf

http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/

http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/elo.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/explosives/shooterspowders.pdf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
932 Posts
Hey Tenex,
You should start saving your toppins and come over here with Taff for the shawnee hunt. I think you would enjoy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Meat hygiene in the UK

Taff/Tenex,

This is something completely new on me....never existed when I still lived back in the UK....is this for meat destined for commercial outlets or all meat, even your own consumption?

If you shot a deer over here it must be tagged on the spot with an allocated ticket/serial number issued by the local hunting federation....then as the beast is sub divided into joints etc, every piece must have a copy of this tag/number attached to provide traceability in the event of problems.

In France if you want a .17/.22 rimfire, if you are not a minor/no criminal record etc, you go into the shop and buy one/as many as you like, it's classified as a leasure calibre!....and no restriction on ammo quantity....really bizzare for me when we moved here as in the UK as you know you need a FAC to get .22....I brought a couple of shotguns over with me but I couldn't buy cartridges then as I didn't have either a shooting license (this is for target/clay pigeon shooters who do not hunt) or a hunting permit...much harder to get....and then there is another higher level of license if you want military calibre rifles or handguns.....you have to be a member of a recognised shooting club to be eligiable for this level of license, then on a quarterly basis the shooting club president has to sign off your license that you have attended the club and shot those high level weapons, failure to get this sign off by the club president means you lose your right to own that level of weapon......this is to encourage usuage and only owning what you can use and to dissuade gun collectors who are effectively non shooters.......... I am in the process of joining my local shooting club and will be going for this higher level of license next.

It's the same for buying shotguns or black powder weapons (including black powder pistols) you go in a shop buy as many as you want.can afford and then you simply have to declare them with the local Gendarmerie (police station) and the local Prefecture (town hall)

On expanding point bullets...these are compulsory over here for all levels of hunting from .17/.22 rimfires to........everything else bigger!....if you haven't got a valid hunting license you cannot buy expanding ammo or even just bullet heads to roll your own.

Sadly for me now there are too many guns available to me and not enough money!...

....but I am really enjoying shooting the one's I got.....and it's nice to be able to pop out into my garden and use any of them, shotguns, .22 or .45/70....I could never get away with that back in the UK .......no matter how annoying the neighbours cats/dogs/kids were!!!

Safe shooting guy's


....it's really amazing where this thread has ricocheted off too!.....really interesting, thank you everybody.

Limey
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top