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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Real Guns has this load on the 30-30 worksheet for handload data:

170 Gr Sierra SPFN 32.0 grs of IMR3031, COL of 2.520. Says it will do 2191fps and 1813 lbs ft.

Does this seem a little hot to load or has anyone loaded and shot this particular load in the 336.
Before I go to the range and fire some of the loaded rounds, just would like and opinion or two.

fknipfer
 

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I only have two hard copy manuals. Mostly I use them to cross reference other load data like from manufacturer websites and general internet sources. My Hornady Vol. 2 lists 31.5 as a max load. Lee's Modern reloading First edition lists 32 gr 3031 at a 37,700 CUP.

I have started using 3031 and forget what my curent load is but it is under 32 gr. IMVHO using good reloading practices of starting low and working up I wouldn't be scared of that load. If it were me though I would definitly back off to a more traditional 30 grs and work up in .5 gr. increments.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
BMan,

I think what I will do is to back off to 30grs on the new loads and then work my way up to 32grs. I think I will store the rounds I have loaded and wait until I get there. I am looking for a good load for the rifle and thats a good way to do it. I don't have a Hornady book as they want 34.95 for them and I have been procastinating over it. Thank you for the information.

fkniper
 

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:D If you check the Vol. number on my manual it's 2. First printing was 1973 picked it up somewhere two or three dollars.

I wanted on old manual to go with the new information availible. What is interesting in the foreword they describe the method used to arrive at maximum loadings. Basically they measured casehead expansion, not actual pressure readings.

Ok I just checked IMR's website http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/3030win.php

Since it seems that 31.5 is just low enough not to cause case head problems in the gun Hornady used it is their max load, the Lee data gives 37,700 cup for 32 gr and IMR 39,000 PSI at a mere 29.7 gr.

I bet they are all correct. I suspect that holding those in reserve until you work up to that load is the best idea all around. there is a very good chance your gun can safely shoot that load.
 

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This shows why I never throw anything away. OR maybe I'm just a packrat. I had trouble with some Sierra 150's not expanding and called them. My notes say this was on 12-18-03. Carrol Pilant told me that max load for 3031 for the Sierra 150 fn was 32 grains. He also gave me the max for the 170 fn at 29.8. This is from their testing at Sierra. He said this for Win 748 if anybody wants it. 150gr-max load 748-33.6. For the 170 it is 31.7gr for a max load. Hope this helps. Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Everything I see says to back off and I am. I will try 20rounds a 30grains and see what happens. I will chronograph and check speed. Then I will go from there. I have a fairly new Model 336 so it should handle and 30gr pressures.

If no bulges or splits (pressure signs) I will try 20 rounds of 30.5 grains. Thanks for all the help. I need to email Real Guns. com and ask why such a heavy load is published on there net.

Thanks again,
fknipfer
 

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fknipfer said:
Real Guns has this load on the 30-30 worksheet for handload data:

170 Gr Sierra SPFN 32.0 grs of IMR3031, COL of 2.520. Says it will do 2191fps and 1813 lbs ft.

Does this seem a little hot to load or has anyone loaded and shot this particular load in the 336.
Before I go to the range and fire some of the loaded rounds, just would like and opinion or two.

fknipfer
I loaded my 150 rem bullet with one or two grains over using 3031... no biggy. Just make sure the bullet can seat OK. I do not think u will expiriance any problems. I will try the load u posted the next time I load 170 gr's.

Cheers,
Mad

PS. I will check the Lee manual for you to see if it is TOO MUCH ;)

Cheers.
 

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Keep in mind that 32 gr of 3031 is listed in a reputable load manual. Lee's first edition of Modern Reloading. They even give pressure data of 37,700 CUP which is IIRC under SAMMI limits. I do believe the Lee manual states that they get all that information directly from the powder companies. I suspect what happened is that IMR upgraded their pressure test equipment from copper crusher to piezio electric and have a more accurate grasp on the pressures and adjusted their load recomendations accordingly. Also in the Lee manual that load is under a heading for 170 gr. jacketed bullet, but which jacketed bullet?? Actual bullet selection can and will effect real pressures.
 

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fknipfer:

I am currently working up loads for a 336 -.35 rem and using 3031. Granted these are 2 different cartridges, but the pressure signs are going to be the same - flattened primers, hard extraction and rapid case length increase, to name a few. I looked on shooters forum for a hotter load than what the manuals stated and found several. The loading manuals are going to be designing their loads to safely function in the weakest rifles available in that caliber. The 35 Remington is limited by an old slide action Remington rifle that does not have a locked breach. The 3030 cartridge is going to be limited by the Winchester 3030 rifles manufactured prior to the last century. I have been using the loads stated on that site by a guy calling himself "35 Remington." I am now up to his stated maximum charges for 3031 in the 35 Remington caliber and have found no high-pressure signs yet after firing approximately 30 cartridges at athe max load he lists. I increased my loads by one half grain per sequence of 10 cartridges and am well over the load manual limits. It was a lot of shooting, but someone had to do it. All of the shells were carefully inspected and absolutely none of them have shown high-pressure signs of any kind. When we roll our own, we have to use our own best judgment.
 

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Here is a question?? What basis are you working your loads up on? Accuracy or max loads/velocity?

My advice for what it is worth would be to not get caught up in this "max load" game. What point does it serve? It leaves you very little room for things like pressure changes due to temp, humidity ect. My personal thought is that you are far better off going with accuracy any day. If you need a 30-06 buy one, but dont try to make one out of a 30-30.

I would spend the money and get a few reloading manuals and use them for reference to compare loads and work within that data. Start about midway in the powder spectrum and work your way up 1/2 grain at a time. When you find a couple accurate loads load them and shoot them a couple time to see if it is repeatable and then go with them. I would much rather have a load that shoots under an inch at 100 yards at 1900 FPS than a load at 2200 FPS that shoots 3-6 inches. And a deer isn't gonna know the difference, but having the ability to shoot him in the eye if you need to and knowing you can do it counts for a lot in the field.

Some people will say that shooting paper doesn't matter. It really does matter. If you think about it from this aspect. Say you have a load that shoots .5-1.0 inches at 100 yards. When you shoot that load off hand in the field you might be shooting 4-8 inches at 100 yards. Now say you have a load that choose because of velocity that shoots 4 inches at 100 yards. When you shoot that load off hand at 100 yards your may go to 10-12 inches, and that can well mean the difference between a miss, a wounded animal and not a clean kill. Just something to think about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Big Medicine,

I am looking for a round that will shoot 1.0 to 1.5" max at 100yds. I am using the 170gr bullet because my particular rifle seems to like 170grain bullets. The accuracy of the 170gr plus a reasonable amount of energy is what I need. When I find the loading that does that I probably will not shoot anything else out of it. I tried the new 160gr reveloution round from Hornady and my rifle just didn't care for it.
My first loads will be 29.5grs of 3031 and if that is accurate I may not go further. After the 29.5grs I will try 30grs etc. etc. etc. until I find the round my 336 likes to shoot. I am not looking for max velocity, just max accuracy and a reasonable energy rating. Anyway that is where I am at at this moment. Had a lot of good advice and opinions so far, thanks guys.

fknipfer
 

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You might think about the AA powders. I have had real good luck with the AA2520 with the 170 gr RN. I'm shooting 30.5 gr with a MV of 1989 FPS with great accuracy.
 

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Just for Grins I pulled up some "old and other" manuals.
All data is listed as max load and max velocity based on a 170 grain bullet. Quite a variation to choose from. Rick
Lyman 41st edition:
3031-31.5grs vel-2300
Lyman 45th edition
3031-28.5grs vel-2110
Speer #7
3031-31grs vel-2168
IMR reloader's guide [freebe]
3031-29.7grs vel-2110
Lee Reloading "Second Edition"
3031-29.7grs vel-2110
Lee lists 13 powders with a higher velocity than 3031. For what it's worth. :roll: Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Talk about confusion reigning, I just got the latest IMR Smokeless powder reloaders guide from IMR in the mail. Guess what it says for the 170gr bullet Sierra FP which I loaded, 29.2gr of 3031 @ 2085fps.

I have: 20 rounds of 29.5grs loaded Sierra FP
20rounds of 30.0grs loaded Sierra FP.

I am going to range tomorrow and shoot both of these rounds of course the 29.5 first and check for all signs of overload before I go further. I think the round makes a difference the Sierra bullet is much slicker and cleaner than the Remington bullet and I don't know about the Hornady this does mean all are not good just an observation.

Will get back later with results.

fknipfer
 

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FWIW,

My load is 30 gr. of 3031 behing the 170 gr. Nosler Partion. That is 1 minute of deer. Do we need more?
 

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max loads

Big MEd:

My goal in working up a load, is both accuracy and muzzle energy. This obviously makes a gun more versatile. If your ranges are short, four-inch, 100 yard groups are plenty good. With the load I previously mentioned I'm shooting into approximately 2 inch groups. The load is at its maximum, and providing the accuracy is within my needs it will serve me well. Warm weather shooting will cause the highest pressures. One of many pressure tests that I use constantly is to re- chamber a fired shell. To date, none have had any problem in this respect. Light loads do not always translate into higher accuracy. My results as well as those of others strongly indicate that extra space within the shell will cause groups to open up. My best accuracy has been achieved with slightly compressed loads. Increasing loads beyond those in published loading manuals does entail a certain amount of risk. For the record, I do not recommend it as a standard practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Took the rifle to range today with 20ea rounds 29.5gr of IMR 3031 170gr Sierra, and 20ea rounds 30gr of IMR3031 170gr Sierra listed are results.

1) 29.5 grains IMR3031
High 2132 fps
Low 2048fps
Avg 2084fps
Spread 84fps
Group 4"
Not real good spread or group.

2) 30 grains IMR3031
High 2142fps
Low 2096fps
Avg 2121fps
Spread 46fps
Group 3"
Not real good but a lot better spread tightened up and group shrank.

Now going to load up 30.5 grains of IMR 3031 and 31grains of IMR 3031.
If improvement is as good as from the first to second I will be there. I won't know until next week.
If no improvement made I will switch powder to suggested AA Brand and try again. Lots of things to try Remington bullets etc. etc. etc. Isn't this fun.

fknipfer
 

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fknipfer, I'm in the same place, testing loads for a 25-06, and while it's tedious at times, we do it because we love it. Finding THE LOAD for each gun we own is a quest, sometimes it's over sooner than later, sometimes not. I burned the throat out of an old 7X57 Mauser, trying to find the best load for it, and never really did find what I considered the perfect load for it.

My rule is to try to remember that every gun is different, and that while hot loads are less desireable, sometimes that's what the gun likes. My 30-30 seems happy with loads about three grains under maximum, my 35 Rem. likes them right on the edge, sometimes even a little hotter. I inspect my brass throughly, clean my guns meticulously, and if anything starts acting hinky, I'll know it pretty fast. But experimenting is part of our nature, just like driving too fast and stretching our boundaries to see what's out there.

In other words, we're all a little nuts. Once you accept that, it's ALL good. :wink:

PJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·


This picture describes it all. It is 31gr of IMR 3031 3.0" group.
HI - 2237fps
Low- 2148fps
Spread - 88fps
AVG - 2186fps

I have had the same groups for 30.0 and 30.5 and 31.0grs. Will this gun ever get better or is this what I can expect from a Marlin 336CS. The 35Rem I own shoots much better than this 30-30. I was going to load some AA powder and 170gr bullets and check them versus this. Maybe I am trying to get too much from the gun but I don't think so. Somebody let me know if I am.

fknipfer
 
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