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Never was the example of shot placement more evident than this weekend's pig hunt. I've long loved the thought of having a big bore (30 years ago) when they were coming out in the early 70's, but we didn't have enough deer to worry about and the local store only had a 30-30 and an 06 when Kansas opened up deer hunting for the general public. We would have gotten into archery (better chance of getting a tag), but there were no archery shops around and no one to teach you or for a way for a youngster to learn. Today as the information is available to all, we all assume we are experts and the spread of knowledge goes much quicker. I finally got my 45-70 and 444 this last 12 years, but did have about 20 years of rifle hunting under my belt before I did it. I felt the added omph from a big bullet would give me the edge.

The shots I took this weekend would seem to proove out their superiority. I only used my 400gr. Lyman (casts at 420gr) in wheel weights. Its relatively soft 12 brinnel and was going out the barrel at 1480fps in my 25gr. of 2400 load. I took a 70 yard head shot at a good sized hog and a through the shoulder cartilage to the front of the neck bone shot at a huge boar. That one running at 45 yards. Both were DRT. Thanks to the education from VTDW and guide Seth, I learned I shouldn't worry about my lung shot, but center in on the head/neck. My SON also so versed had equal success with his piddly 243.

I worried and stewed about this all year long, but decided if folks were killing hogs with 22 mags, then they must know more than me! I worried about the softness of the bullet (regular 100gr. cup and core Hornady.) I worried about denseness of tissue and early mushrooming and decreased penetration. I even worried about his less than top velocity load of 34gr. of Varget gives 2700fps). As it turned out, his two shots were both instantly fatal. he shot a big, big sow at 8 yards. That bullet went through a bit of shoulder and neck tissue to reach her base of the skull for a quick and intant death. The other was a hog in a pond. she wasn't as big, but on getting straffed by his 100gr. bullet (shot went through two jugulars), she keeled over as fast as any of them. blood shooting 3 feet high and down her leg leaving a big bloody area in the pond.

Is a big bore necessary? probably not, but as i saw particularly on my big bore, if I shot straight into that mass of cartilage, not much would penetrate it. if you're going to take a running shot, you'd better have all your ducks in a row. 7 years ago I shot a big boar in the shoulder with a 30-30 170gr. Core lokt going 2200fps. That boar, shot at 30 yards ran upwards of 1/2 mile and did not leave any blood trail. I honestly think if I'd do that again, it'd have to be with a big bore. That might be where the difference would lie. However, I won't ever purposly take that shot again,

With having such great success this weekend, I've deccided that my load/gun are perfect for hogs. That is I shoot them well. That is the big point I'm getting across here. My son on the other hand is ready to migrate to leveraction 30-30's. He loved that 30-30 of Tommy's (big Medicine's boy) and wants one of his own. Maybe not the youth version, though. I'm glad he saw the light. For some reason, he wanted a bolt action. Probably because I don't use them anymmore. Guess they always want what we don't have. We're going out this weekend to start work on 3 different 30-30 loads. A plinker, a medium velocity and high velocity cast. He can barely wait to shoot both the 336SS and 336BL I have.

What will I use next year? Don't know and don't care as long as it shoots straight. ;D
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Interestingly, Jack is really fired up about guns now, where before he was only himming and hawing when I mentioned hunting. Seems maybe I pushed just a little early.

 

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I agree 100% on the importance of shot placement.

Great pictures of your son with harvested hogs.

Great to hear that he's getting excited about shooting. Sounds like you and Jack had a priceless hunt!
 

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Yep...shot placement!

While I have yet to kill my first wild hog...I have killed quite a few farm raised hogs with a plain old 22, and some of those hogs were pushing up near 700 lbs.

And NO...I'm not saying I'd wanna shoot at a 700 lb. wild hog with a 22...not in a hunting situation. I'm just saying that a small bullet in the right spot will do the deed, usually better than a big bullet in the wrong spot.
 

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Shot placement is what it's all about, great story and pictures. Jack sure looks happy. 8) 8) 8)
 

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Hi ya Dr. A

I couldn’t agree more, shot placement is what it’s all about. I have a growing collection of sticks, including a very nice 336 in .30-30 with a 1.5 X 5 lupie but when I head out, I always seem to take my Tikka T3 in .30-06.
The thing is I know the rifle, I know how it shoots and I can confidently drop running game in the scrub because I know where the 150grainer will land. I use it on ferals including Pigs and Goats, Wild Dogs and now April is almost here, hopefully Red and Fallow Deer.
Interesting about the head/neck shots, I always go for critical mass (heart, lung) on everything and it drops them pretty quick, even the Deer.
The only game that seems to take that kind of shot are feral Goats. In the heat i.e. summer they seem to be able to take a hell of a thump and keep moving. It’s only in the winter that I’ve got ‘flop’ shots.

Capt. Marco
 

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the first wild hog i shot was with a 223 in the front shoulder never found her, the next one i shot with a 7mm mag in the head, if at all possable i take head shots on hogs, im color blind and cant see blood and i dont like looking for anything i shoot
 

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I don't load anything for hunting something I want to eat past 2800 fps so as not to have blood shot meat., Better to have a bigger bullet, but a long shot for me here in Maine is 100 yds. If I come out west I may have to re-think but would use a stout bullet at higher velocities.
 

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You might have to try some of the monoflex 140 bullets. I think this bullet should penetrate well. I have 200 on the way from Midway and will get some loads worked up in the next couple weeks.
 

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jimone said:
I don't load anything for hunting something I want to eat past 2800 fps so as not to have blood shot meat., Better to have a bigger bullet, but a long shot for me here in Maine is 100 yds. If I come out west I may have to re-think but would use a stout bullet at higher velocities.
I use hunting loads that exceed 2800 and even 3000 FPS, but a good bullet is very important. I have my mind set on trying some Barnes X bullets for my 300WM. I have had very good luck with the Sierra 250 grain SPBT in my 338WM and they are comming out right at 2830FPS
 

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Sounds like that XS7 might be gathering dust in the near future David, once Jack discovers lever actions I imagine a bolt will seem kinda boreing.

I think I'd agree as far as shot placement goes. Everything used put them down on the spot as long as head shots were used and we had the spectrum covered pretty well with calibers ranging from the 243 to your slow moving 45/70 load to our 44 mag & a couple 30/30's. I was surprised to hear Seth say he wasn't crazy about people useing shotgun slugs but we didn't discus it further. I think that was right before he saw the pig Connor shot on the way out. Might be he's had bad experiences with people being able to place a slug in the right spot. At any rate I'd think a modern slug load should perform at least as good as your 45/70 load or my 44 load, I'm not certain of my velocity but would be surprised if it was much over 15 or 16 hundred FPS.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I was wondering about that. I know Alan's was a 250gr. Hornady with 17gr. of AA#9. That is below what i load my revolvers with (18.5) or so. That'll give over 1300fps in a 5.5 inch barrel, and I'd guess 1700 or thereabouts in a 20 inch barrel. Jack wants a 30-30, but a 94 looks so much better for a kid. I think I'll let him shoot the 30-30's for a while. His birthday is coming on the 19th of May. Maybe we can decide by them. I'm going to do some mowing and discing preparing for a big burning of CRP today. Should be exciting if it doesn't rain in the meantime!

I wonder if Seth's slug issue is due to that solid lead slug into the shoulder and overexpanding/ I've seen guys that couldn't hit with them also. Not the most accurate of firearms.
 

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Shot placement is, IMO, the most important. That said, sometimes things are not as it appears. An animal is turned and looks broad side, the animal moves, you have a split second to make a shot, you take a running shot. You shoot the animal behind the shoulder like a deer. You name it one day...IT happens.

Okay when it happens and your shot is not what you thought, the 44mag, 45/70, 35 Whelen, 12 gauge slug, 54 cal all seem to be real debilitating. That is why I like to use the larger cartridges.

JMHO

Corbi
 

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Good point Corbi. I hope all understand your point. I do!
 

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Corbi said:
Shot placement is, IMO, the most important. That said, sometimes things are not as it appears. An animal is turned and looks broad side, the animal moves, you have a split second to make a shot, you take a running shot. You shoot the animal behind the shoulder like a deer. You name it one day...IT happens.

Okay when it happens and your shot is not what you thought, the 44mag, 45/70, 35 Whelen, 12 gauge slug, 54 cal all seem to be real debilitating. That is why I like to use the larger cartridges.

JMHO

Corbi
I agree 100%
 

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Here is one of Sand Draw Jakes last posts

"The bullet isn't as important as where it hits."

That pretty much sums it up for me too ;D .DT
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I understand Corbi to a certain extent, but will say that even though I like hunting with the big bores, we are all so taken up by "more power", that we forget that comfort, ease of use and actual effect are sometimes lost on us. Who hasn't heard someone claim they need a bigger gun after the deer "ran off with a bullet in him". They (hunters), lots of the time will claim it was a good shot as well. Well, I guess we never did find out about the shot, did we?

Ease of use and mental make up make up my best gun. I don't remember ever having gut shot a deer with a 30-30. I don't try Texas heart shots with it. Can't say I've always made good choices with my 06. Perhaps I had too much confidence in that gun. That 308MX is just a souped up 30-30 to me and will make me "feel" like I'm doing as balanced of a job providing stopping power on that deer. Nothing would make me feel more confident. I also now feel that way with a moderately powered 45-70. Loading it to the cannon stage DID NOT make me feel more confident. I was more intent on making a good shot than I am other wise. I had to concentrate on the gun entirely too much. Less pressure and blast helps in that dept. Perhaps I just need more experience, or perhaps I'll just use the big bores for the close in stuff.

I saw confidence in VTDW"s use of the 444. He's had other guns, but that one makes him feel like he is doing his best to get his quary. That's all I'm talking about. ;)
 

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Dr. A said:
I understand Corbi to a certain extent, but will say that even though I like hunting with the big bores, we are all so taken up by "more power", that we forget that comfort, ease of use and actual effect are sometimes lost on us. Who hasn't heard someone claim they need a bigger gun after the deer "ran off with a bullet in him". They (hunters), lots of the time will claim it was a good shot as well. Well, I guess we never did find out about the shot, did we?

Ease of use and mental make up make up my best gun. I don't remember ever having gut shot a deer with a 30-30. I don't try Texas heart shots with it. Can't say I've always made good choices with my 06. Perhaps I had too much confidence in that gun. That 308MX is just a souped up 30-30 to me and will make me "feel" like I'm doing as balanced of a job providing stopping power on that deer. Nothing would make me feel more confident. I also now feel that way with a moderately powered 45-70. Loading it to the cannon stage DID NOT make me feel more confident. I was more intent on making a good shot than I am other wise. I had to concentrate on the gun entirely too much. Less pressure and blast helps in that dept. Perhaps I just need more experience, or perhaps I'll just use the big bores for the close in stuff.

I saw confidence in VTDW"s use of the 444. He's had other guns, but that one makes him feel like he is doing his best to get his quary. That's all I'm talking about. ;)
I guess I'm confused by this response. We are talking about hog right? Or Deer? 350# hogs and 100# whitetail are a little different animals. I still stand by my statement that shot placement is paramount. When I hunt in areas that do not have hogs I usually carry a lighter rifle. Hogs don't bleed like deer and the larger hole makes tracking easier if the animal runs. My 6.5X55 and my 270 leave deer DRT but they also leave very small holes.

It also seems to me that you are disparaging my use of medium or big bores but its okay that Dave uses a 444 because he has confidence in his rifle? Just asking.

Corbi
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Perhaps my thoughts were not well outlined. My thought was nothing to disparage your thought, but to point out my previous perception that my 30-30 was inadeqate for hogs which in fact it wasn't. My son, with excellent shot placement stopped two hogs in their tracks, with a puny 243. The right caliber doesn't matter so much as your choice of setup which hopefully will enable you to make the best shot possible. I did feel like I had the freedom to shoot at a large running hog because of the forgiveness a large bore gives on a marinal hit. In these two cases, I didn't actually need it._
 
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