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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a question for you 22WMR shooters. If you could get a custom 22 WMR round, what would it look like? Be reasonable in your responses. Obviously, wanting a 30 grain bullet to do 2700 ft/sec is out, but what about a 40 grainer doing 2100 ft/sec? RWS did a similar round but for large $$ per box. How about a 60 grain bullet for the Ruger shooters with the 1-14" twist guns...

Any thoughts?? You've got 36 hours to get in a response! ~Andrew
 

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I'm at the other end of the velocity wish, desire wise. A custom WMR? How about something expressly for target shooting? Still haven't seen target quality ammo made up for the WMR. Wolf or Lapua match grade WMR ammo.... hmmm......

I wonder how a moderate velocity plain lead bullet would behave- my guess would be that it would have to be well under 1600 fps to prevent bore leading....

Good question Andrew!

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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I am pleased now with the way my Marlin 25mn likes CCI hps.. I pulled the last shot or would have maxed the bdt. it just touched the black outer circle.... So I would say if anyone could make anything shoot better I am for it.. :lol:
 

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How about a 40gr semi wad cutter type bullet at about 1500 fps solid nosed and semi jacketed to prevent leading. I think the flat meplat would be better for 100yds and less, less destructive on small game and hell on coyotes.

for long range a 30gr hornady hp or ballistic tip flat based in the range of 2400 fps. I don't think this would over penetrate for the hide hunters either.

and if you could make the first one good for Doc Sharptail's target shooting maybe we could both be happy. I'll bet that sucker would hit like a fist on grouse,turkey, phesent, and other small game(obey your game laws)ducks, geese racoons, oppossum.
 

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I think a 37 grain moving around 2100 would be great. Either psp or balistic tip. Limitations in the 22wmr cartridge - it is what it is. For critters larger then lets say - squirrels, the Winchester 40 gr. Rem/cci 40 gr sp works just fine. I went round and about trying to figgure out how to make a better 22wmr round. My fantasy mag round would be like a 37 grain pointed hard point - let me `esplain.
The bullet design would be much like the Rem psp, a jacketed bullet , lead core but instead of a soft point or plastic balistic tip, a industrial grade diamond tip - yeah baby ;)

I was following a thread on the ReloadBench forum, one was for experimenting with reloading the 22wmr, after all OSSI basicaly does this and i'm not paying 20$+ for a box of 22wmr. Besides that if you take a close look at the marginal gain its not worth it. Imho. It's a quiet thread now for the most part. Even though it seemed some dedicated reloaders, experiments, machinists etc., gave interest. I thought I once had to much time on my hands.. Anyhow alot of time and thought went into methods and tooling it would seem, and agian the end results showed marginal gain.

Want to gain some accuracy in 22wmr without all the horse hockey? Try this; go buy an electronic scale, or use the one you already have for reloading. Balance beam will work to but takes more time.
Now get a box of your favorite 22wmr, weigh in each round. I can almost garantee you 1 in 7 will be different. Weed `em out.
To good shooting.
 

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High Velocity Solid Point

I would like a solid point with the velocity of the Win. Supreme or one of the high speed CCI's. This would give me good trajectory out to 100yds without the meat damage.

If this round already exists, please point me in the right direction.

Thanks for the thread Andrew!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
12 Hours left!

Thanks for the responses, guys!

Bowdog: The Federal/Sierra 30 grain HP already does 2300 ft/sec from my SSV. You might want to check them out. Also, the PMC "Predator" 40 grain JSP and JHP have an exposed lead tip on a true jacketed bullet. Mean on game. The velocity is just under 1800 ft/sec.

Doc: Ever try the "Dynapoint" 22WMr loads? 45 grain lead bullet at a tad over 1500 ft/sec. Accuracy was terrible in all of my WMR's but you never know... Not enough speed for the weight and 1-16" twist, I suspect.

Personally, I'm with danurve. I am betting on a 37 - 40 grain FMJ or JHP in the 2100 ft/sec range. Perhaps with a rebated boat-tail bullet? that would be a real killer.

The reason for his informal poll is that I'm meeting with an engineer from an ammo company this week and he asked me what kind of 22WMR round I'd like to see on the market. I have my own idea as to what I'd like to see but wanted to get your collective opinions as well -for which I am grateful. I'll be printing this page tomorrow morning and taking it with me.

I leave for the meeting in 12 hours if anybody has more thoughts on the matter. ~Andrew
 

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Andrew-

Let's leave velocity and bullet weight out of the equation for now. Consider this- a load for the WMR made to the same exacting standards as Lapua Match, or Eley's top of the line match ammo.... if it takes velocity "X" and bullet weight "Y", so be it.

From the little bit of rim measuring I've done with the WMR, most of it is better than passable, but could still be tightened up to compare with quality match .22 ammo.....

I have not had a great deal of accuracy success with hyper velocity WMR ammo, but this could just be the rifle.... 2300 fps is nudging into Hornet territory- maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think that high velocity .22's would have more shooter control from a center fire cartridge and high standards of handloading, again- this is just personal opinion.

Strange that the 45 gr is a poor performer- especially when I had better than acceptable results with the old out of production Federal 50 gr ....

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Doc: I hear you. You want ammo that can match the capability of the rifle, no matter what. Correct? I have been shooting the 22WMR for a long. long time and the current varieties are so far ahead (accuracy-wise)of the stuff of yesteryear that it isn't funny. My SSV shoots Fed 40 grainers like it's match ammo but I must agree that it isn't consistent lot-to lot. No. A 30 grain bullet at 2300 doesn't even nudge the Hornet but it's usefulness is questionable since, according to Federal's own lab, their 1910 ft/sec 40 grain FMJ eclipses it for power at 65 yards and for velocity at 123 yards. Not much of an advantage there.

I think the Dynapoint 22WMR has two faults. First: It's too slow for the 1-16" twist and that 45 grain bullet. I have had lots as slow as 1450 ft/sec. Even the Federal 50 grainers performed well out to 50 -70 yards from my SSV and my BRNO 611 self loader, but that load had an extra 100+ ft/sec on the lead Winchester round. The second reason is that I believe it's not too well assembled. My chrono is all over the map, velocity-wise, when I shoot the stuff. If I was shooting a Ruger Single Six as a "truck gun" I'd load it with Dynapoints, perhaps. Good plinking round but that's it.

Which reminds me... I hear rumblings that Winchester wants to get out of the rimfire ammo business entirely. It wouldn't surprise me. I was mortified when I bought a bulk box of "X-pert" 22LR. Surely you're old enough to remember when the "X-pert" was GOOD ammunition? Heck! the batch I bought didn't even have lubricant on the bullets. I gave it away after as few groups. Sad business. I believe Remington would like to ditch that end of their operation as well. I recently did a write-up on subsonic 22LR rounds and the Remington's were the absolute worst of the lot. There was a 137 ft/sec velocity swing in each 10 shot string. I even picked up another brick (differnt Lot #) to make sure I hadn't just gotten a bad batch. The second was as bad as the worst. It's funny how people today -the young ones- think it's normal to buy a brick of Remington "Golden Bullet" 22LR and have 5% of them not go off. It seldom happened when we were young, eh? The quality just isn't there.

Well. I ramble. I will take your "Match" 22WMR request to the man himself. Promise. ~Andrew
 

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Andrew-

I pre-date the "old" X-pert ammo by just a hair- the drug store was still selling EZ-XS when I first started shooting in the early 60's. Sure as heck can't buy .22 ammo in a drug store these days. I later found out that the pharmacist's .22 ammo had to be at least 15 years old...

I'm nudging the big five owe now, and there have been a lot of changes down the pike- some exceptionally good, some not so hot, as far as rimfire shooting goes...

I thought a great deal about WMR ammo at work today, and have to agree that it is very good mostly from the major manufacturers. I have a sneaking suspicion that powder charge weight is a little easier to manage in the bigger capacity case. I have only run into unacceptable magnum performance once- CCI maxi mag + V- it grouped quite loosely from both a 94-22-M and a buddy's Marlin 25 MN...

Thankfully, there is a lot of ammo to choose from on the long rifle side, and I don't have to put up with sub par performance- I can vote with my wallet, and do so!

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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Andrew

I was wanting a semi jacketed semi wadcutter to even a wadcutter type of bullet to cut nice clean holes in targets and punch the brains out of a Squirrels head at out to 100 yds.

Match accuracy would be nice but I don't shoot to many matches. I use this rifle for the farm gun sits in the barn most of the time. Take it out and shoot it when the coyotes are after the chickens 50 - 75 yards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bowdog: Gottcha. I guess forgot to mention that the PMC has a rather wide "flat" on the nose of the bullet. It's what came to mind when you mentioned that "semi-wadcutter" shape. I'll pass on the suggestion.

Doc: You and I are in the same age bracket. I started hunting squirrel with my dad in '63, then was allowed out alone the next year and thereafter. I remember being able to buy a box of 22's at just about every store, expecially if the business sold nails or cigarettes! "Super-X" LR and Shorts were the fodder of my youth. I also remember buying a box of 22LR when I was 9 years old and the store clerk just asked, "S'it Ok with your folks?" I nodded and he gave me the ammo. Well I remember my friend Mike and I walking through residential neighborhoods that bordered the squirrel woods carrying ourrifles in plain view. Nobody raised an eyebrow. Boy! Those days are gone. ~Andrew
 

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Andrew, I'm a little late, but I'll throw in anyway.

The problem with the plastic tipped rounds is they lack skiving in the jacket to open up adequately when the range gets long, or the impact resistance is light. I'd like to see Remington put notches in the jacket to improve the expansion of the bullet at range. The notches don't have to be long, as I don't want it to turn into a complete blowup bullet-I just want decent expansion of the bullet to a full 150 yards, the trajectory limit of the round. The .17 HMR has the problem of poor expansion at 200 yards, and it also lacks a skived jacket.

Now that I'm really dreaming, here goes.

I stacked a 40 grain boattail V-max .224 handloading component bullet next to a loaded 22 magnum round, and noted that it's probably too long to work for the .22 magnum case. It's a lot longer bullet than the 33 grain Remington Premier, but the b.c. has to be nearly twice as high.

What I would like to see is the heaviest, most streamlined bullet possible in the .22 magnum case, lit up using the same powder technology that makes the .17 HMR run. I would hope for 2000-2200 fps, with whatever pressures justify using the heaviest bullet they can in the cartridge, plastic tipped with a skived jacket to help low velocity expansion. If the bullet weighs 35 grains, fine. If they can make it heavier, that would be fine as well. I don't care about exact bullet weight(as long as it's respectable), I'd like to get rid of some of the meadow muffin .22 magnum bullet shape. No bottail, as that doesn't do anything for b.c. and makes the bullet overlong.

You could argue that b.c. doesn't matter over most .22 magnum ranges, but I'm talking about optimizing the round, and streamlined, higher b.c. bullets sell in the HMR. Maximize the bullet by shortening the ogive slightly, whatever-but RWS 40 grain weight and bullet speed (2000-2050) with better bullet shape and assurance of expansion at range would be all I could hope for.

Maybe not possible, but I did say I was dreaming, and you did ask.

I think the Dynapoint was an effort to meet the demand for a small game appropriate round, and I don't think 45 grains at 1550 fps is a bad way to do it. They mushroom nicely in wet phone books, and work well on small game without blowing it to bits, but the accuracy just isn't there. Save the accuracy part, it was just what I needed for general small game hunting.

How about trying it again, with accuracy this time?
 

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I use CCI maxi mag solids. Pull the bullet with collet bullet puller, dump and save the powder. Weigh a new powder charge, and seat a 40 grain sierra spitzer bullet with a modified .22 hornet seater die. Played around with overall length and powder charges til I got a round that is extremely accurate. Only caveat is the bullet is too long for the clip and must be used single shot style. Don't recommend it because some fool will do something stupid and blow himself up, but makes an extremely accurate round.
 

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Ok Andrew you talked with them big shots what have they got to say for themselves. Are we gonna see some accurate/consistant/target type ammo or maybe the super duper flattner patterner...inquiring minds and all that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Bowdog: I gave them my nickle's worth! I said 40 grain at 2000+ and/ or "Match Grade". I guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope to get samples of it whenever and whatever it turns out to be. ~Andrew

Duhuh: I used to be amongst a group of silhouette shooters who did the same thing. Somewhere in my stuff back home I have a set of RCBS dies made for the operation, including a "neck" resizer with seat and crimp dies. Never wanted to do it myself but maybe I will someday.~Andrew
 
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40Grainer @ 2000+

Hi Andrew,

I'd like a 40 gr. at or near 2000+, that would be ok for my SSV, don't you think?

1722Magman :D
 

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Who knows they may come up with some compressed metal filings inside a jacket for a super frangible varmit getter. Looking forward to seeing what they are going to come up with.
 

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bowdog said:
Who knows they may come up with some compressed metal filings inside a jacket for a super frangible varmit getter. Looking forward to seeing what they are going to come up with.
While not composed of metal filings, the Winchester Supremes could fill that task. They're cruisin` too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
17/22magman: You bet. I'd like them for my 882SSV as well. I also like the Supremes... right up until it's time to pay for them, that is! The only shop that carries them hereabouts gets $11 / box. Ouch!~Andrew
 
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