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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 35 rem shoots good with a scope, but with the factory iron sights I can't seem to hit much. I have good eyesight but the front bead covers about 8" at 100 yards, and when I focus on the front bead the target is a blur.

How is it possible to shoot 2" groups with iron sights? I've tried an ashley sight on my winchester but can't get any better groups. Even with my BLR and its really good factory sights I can't shoot small groups.

Do I need professional help, or should I just use scopes from now on?
 

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Thats what scopes are for. Some do better, but I bet its not as many as claim 2 inches. If I want 2 inches I use a scope. I think the factory sights worked much better for me as a teen. My factory sight efforts now would get me somewhere around 3 or 4 inches at 100 yards. (at best) Most will measure from 50 yards to get a 2 inch group with factory irons.
 

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Slowhand,

I'm with you. I was shooting in the standing positio. I'll hit the paper and lucky if several are in the rings at 100yds. I tired several shots in the sitting position resting on a picnic table and hit the rings. The next time I'm using a sling while shooting in the standing position. The sling seem to help with keeping the barrel steady. I'll see how it works.

When you are looking at the sights the target will be fuzzy. That's OK. Keep the sights aligned and steady. I provided a link to help. Start with chapter 4 and practice, practice, practice.

http://www.tpub.com/content/USMC/mcrp301a/index.htm
 

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Hey Slowhand -

I doubt your 336 is drilled and tapped for a tang sight, but I found out a month or two ago, purly by accident, that if you mount a tang sight and use the iron sights with the atang, it clears the factory irons up clear as a bell........It's amazing.

Shum8
 

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How about a smaller bead? I like the suggestions for a peep sight, as I'm an iron sight kind of guy. They are clearer for me as well.

I still say if you want to hit with irons, a flat topped fairly narrow post is superior to all other sights, used with a peep or a square notch rear sight.
For the lower light conditions at twilight I recently installed a 4 moa Ultra Dot on my 336. The sight is tiny, around 4 ounces, and mounts pretty low. It will be lower when I put on my Burris Zee low mounts instead of the rings that came with the sight. Ideally, I would glue the sight to the top of the receiver and remove the front sight.

I wouldn't really do that, but mounting it as low as possible seems like a good idea for jumpshooting. We still conduct small, 2-4 man deer drives in some areas, and a gun that aims quick is pretty nice to have. The dot sight makes the gun more useful, but its appearance still offends my sense of aesthetics. I'll get over it.
 

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Maybe the problem is in your pair-o'-lacks. :?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the replies!

I think I might try a smaller bead. I liked the flat top of the ashley ghost ring bead, but it was too wide. Maybe something narrower and flat.

I'll see if I can find an extra bead around and grind it.
 

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Slowhand, I am first almost 59 yr old and my eyesight is not what it used to be. If like me you need glasses, ask your optometrist if he shoots if he does explain that you also need to be able to focus when your head is turned at an angle when shooting, then you will have the proper glasses to shoot with. Second that patridge sight you have on the front of the ashley system will allow you to focus on the center of round objects. If you have buckhorn or semi buckhorn sights file it flat or buy a sight that is that way. I'm not saying buckhorns or semi buckhorns are bad just that most are not built with the proper amount flat area between the horns for good sight picture. The ashley ghost ring is not a good target sight, it is a very good hunting sight. That said get a insert for target work and remove for hunting. Second there is no way you can beat a fiber optic front bead, with them and a lyman peep on the rear I'm one of them 2" group shooters. I can hold 5 into a 5inch group offhand but I do shoot at least a full magazine of .22s from my model 39 each day all offhand. "Taint brag if you can do it." That said here is one more tip for all who have the fuzzy sight problem, cut a short piece of black electical tape fold it in half then in quarters then cut a small hole about 1/8th inch place it at the focal pt of your shooting glasses you will note that the sight is no longer blurry when looking through this hole. They make a commercial one that sticks to your glasses and folds down for use.
 

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I used to shoot competitively, and I learned a trick to make those iron sights work better. Don't try to get that front bead centered on the bullseye. When you cover it up, it's impossible to guess where you may be. Instead, line the sights up, and hold the bullseye at 6 o'clock position. It should look like a round spot sitting on top of the front bead. When sighting this way, you can easily tell if you're a little high, low, left or right.
Try it the next time you sight your gun in, and I guarantee your groups will shrink, even with poor eyes, and irons.
 

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Unless you're going to use it for something other than hunting, try sighting in at 50yds. I can get 1" groups @ 50yds with my peep/firesight combo. I replaced the factory front with a smaller diameter firesight. At 100yds, 4" is about as good as I can do from a bench. Off hand, I can bust gallon jugs all day long.

2" groups @ 100yds without magnification is going to be tough.
 
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marlinman93 said:
I used to shoot competitively, and I learned a trick to make those iron sights work better. Don't try to get that front bead centered on the bullseye. When you cover it up, it's impossible to guess where you may be. Instead, line the sights up, and hold the bullseye at 6 o'clock position. It should look like a round spot sitting on top of the front bead. When sighting this way, you can easily tell if you're a little high, low, left or right.
Try it the next time you sight your gun in, and I guarantee your groups will shrink, even with poor eyes, and irons.
Marlinman,

Please don't think I am trying to start something: but just for starters, while I agree with you that a 6 o'clock hold works for target shooting, I think it stinks for field shooting and hunting. So if a guy is sighting a gun for hunting, and uses the dead center hold, then he uses a large bull so he can see the concentric black around the bead. We often use a paper plate with no marks on it, just hold dead center and see where they go.

I wonder if it wasn't a military thing, hold on the top of the trench and pull when you see something stick up; wham, right between the eyes.

But this isn't very useful on a deer; in my opinion "the bead is the bullet" is the easiest to teach and works for everyone I have coached.

Again, not trying to start a fight over this, just a contrasting view........

Best Regards,

Grizz
 

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I've done some of my best c.f. irons shooting with an Fr-8. The front sight on this carbine tapers to a sharp point- needle type. dunno if this is for everyone, but it keeps me in the black off-hand at 100 yds on a 5" bull with a dead on hold. I almost shoot as well with a barleycorn- a little harder to see.

There's a pic around here somewhere of a sourdough front site- looks a lot easier to use than a gold bead. I've tried smaller beads, and they aren't very much better than the factory bead given my eyesight. The partridge type front sight works very well with peep or tang sights-much easier to hold with for me....

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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I have struggled with this same issue...58 year old eyes. This winter I am going to make a project of getting my 336A DL/30-30 and my 336 35 Rem. set up with sights that work for me.

The rear sight will be a Williams peep. The disk will be used at the range and removed for hunting practice and hunting. I would like to find a front bead that I will use like a "red dot" or laser, ie. put the bead where I want to hit.

I am hoping to work up a load and sight setting that will appear to hit somewhere in the area covered by the bead from 50 out to 150 or 175 yds. which pretty much covers the effective range of these cartridges. If this can be accomplished I should be able to slap the bead in the middle of the heart/lung area from zero to 150 yds. and let fly. It's a concept. We'll see how it works out.

But first, I need to get that Missouri whitetail tomorrow morning when the season opens! :wink:
 
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WHAT WORKS FOR ME: PEEP SIGHT, SMALL TO MEDIUM FRONT, SIGHTED IN FOR CENTER HOLD AND TOP OF BEAD (NOT CENTER) IS IMPACT POINT. I HAVE NOT CHANGED THE SIGHT SETTING IN THE LAST TWENTY YEARS. IF YOU CAN SEE IT, YOU CAN HIT IT. RANGE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE SINCE YOU ARE NOT COVERING THE IMPACT POINT. YES, I AM ON THE BACK SIDE OF FIFTY.



BLESSED
 

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If your sighting correct the front site should be blury and the target crisp.. your problem with groups is that your trying to hold too steady..

raise above the target,, get the front blade positioned in the notch where you want it.. and drop to target.. when it reaches the point where you would like the bullet to impact, squeeze the trigger.. try it you will be supprized.. Also remember to kill critters.. the kill zone is much bigger than 2 in.. :lol:
 

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Grizz,
Your method is sound, and I don't take any offense. It's the same method I use when shooting in the field. However, if Slowhand is concerned about getting his groups smaller, there's no way he'll do it shooting at paper plates, or large bullseyes, regardless of where he holds.
The smaller the bullseye, the smaller your group will be, but if the bullseye is smaller than your front bead, you sure can't cover it, and still expect to know if you're centered on it. The only way to know where you're at when sighting in on a bullseye that's smaller than your iron sights, is to keep that bull visable; thus the 6 o'clock hold.
In the field, I shoot at an area on a deer, as they have no bullseye to hold at 6 o'clock. Shooting center mass at game is the normal way to hold, but shooting center mass at a paper plate will never tell you how far off you or your sights are. Hope this makes sense.
 

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Gunjunkie makes a good point. Shooting at the smallest "mark" you can see clearly will help.

With my scoped rifles I often practice offhand shooting at 100 yds. using a black target paster (about 3/4 x 3/4") on a blank paper. This helps me focus mentally on that one spot. With a larger bullseye target it is easy to lose focus and get sloppy.

Actually, with 35 caliber or larger, using a scope, you can shoot once at a blank paper or clean cardboard and use that first bullet hole as an aiming point. That works with iron sights too, but the range depends on how sharp your eyesight is.
 
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