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1. Upsell the .444
2. Show him the hole it puts in animals on the run with one shot.
3. Act as if it a normal occurance for the .444 (Which it is)
4. Tell him recoil is like the 308 he had been shooting all weekend.
5. Put it in his hands and tell him the rest in the mag are for him to shoot.

He is converted, but what I can not do for him is to get approval from the Minister for Finance for said purchase if we can ever find one.
 

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My groups have converted a few bolt guys :tee:
 

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El Kabong
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There is no lever made that can out shoot my bolt gun, not a one.

They are two different tools for two different ways of shooting.

Ive been shooting bolt guns for over 50 years, only got into levers a few years ago.

At 500 yards I hit a 12x12 inch metal with the 45/70. At the same distance I hit a tomato paste can with my bolt gun.
 

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That is a valid point but it is about the right tool for the job. A lever is not designed to be a 500 yard rifle. Can it be done... yes but there are better choices. I feel the slim design and fast handling, similar to the European designed brush rifles is where a lever excels. 200 yards max, heavy timber, maybe running shots.

Yes they both lauch a metal projectile. A tractor and a stock car both run on fuel and can get you from point a to b. Right tool for the job is key.
 

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Pard you may be right, and yep, I own too many bolt guns too, in too many calibers and rolling blocks and falling blocks, .22 through .416 and 45/70... and they are all great shooters.
So given all the choices, what's my go to get it done hunting gun?
Well worn, and very experienced open sighted 1951 Marlin SC or RC carbines with cast bullets...period.
Killed everything I ever pointed them at, and never needed a second shot... yeah I was born in '51 too.
These sweet babies are greyed around the muzzle and sharp edges, with patina aging a bit every year. Either is a blessing just to carry.
Elegant in their simplicity, these old friends are time worn warriors of the seasons.
It's good to know they are always there, standing sentinal in the shadows.

Several folks converted annually... I hand 'em one with a handfull of cartridges and send 'em on a walk about before supper.
The silent smiles when they return tell the story without words.... and most folks return next year with a old lever of their own.
A walk in the the woods with an old friend is magical...you may be on the hunt, but it's not about hunting.
 

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Its a lot about the history of fire arm development. Most levers where designed at time before modern optics and high intensity cartridges, made actually hitting a long range targets relatively easy. Levers where the rage before WW1, the guys came back with the bolt gun 30-06 experience, which the factories were now tooled to produce, and so the bolt showed up on the scene. After WW2/Korea, the factories thought the semi auto wold take off because of the M1, but that never really happended, but we did get some nice semi rifles, the Winchester 100 etc. Savage kept going with 99 for a while, Winchester the 88 likewise, today we have the Marlin MX etc., and the BLR to keep the levers in the high intensity scene, thank goodness. So when I look in the safe, I see unmolested early lever guns that shot well as far as my eyeball will allow, and more recent production lever guns with high intensity cartridges and optics that are accurate to a very respectable distance. I've got bolt guns that are interesting because they are accurate, but find the levers are more interesting for a variety of reasons.

Really like the post above, about "its not really about hunting". Hunters go thru documented phases: novice... just trying to figure it out, competent... trying to get as many as possible, trophy... looking for one selected animal, teacher and wood wanderer... someone who places value where it should be placed, teaching his kids or grand kids or simply really enjoying nature as a primary goal.

Now the wildlife managers prefer the competent hunters, because they take the majority of the kill.
 

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Whenever I carry a bolt rifle very far, I wish I'd brought a nice, light lever rifle, with it's comfortable flat receiver right at the point of balance.

Whenever I'm carrying a nice, light lever rifle and I actually see a deer, I wish I'd brought a heavy, accurate, scoped bolt rifle.
 

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There is no lever made that can out shoot my bolt gun, not a one.

They are two different tools for two different ways of shooting.

Ive been shooting bolt guns for over 50 years, only got into levers a few years ago.

At 500 yards I hit a 12x12 inch metal with the 45/70. At the same distance I hit a tomato paste can with my bolt gun.
Put another 15-20 years trigger time with the levers and load development for em, and put the same glass on both. Bet there won't be that big of spread on group size. 2-piece stock sets can be more difficult to be consistent in grouping, but removing stress from he fore end can sure tighten patterns into tight groups. DP
 

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Whenever I carry a bolt rifle very far, I wish I'd brought a nice, light lever rifle, with it's comfortable flat receiver right at the point of balance.

Whenever I'm carrying a nice, light lever rifle and I actually see a deer, I wish I'd brought a heavy, accurate, scoped bolt rifle.
A Marlin in 308 or 338 ME will solve yer problem. DP
 
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Heck, I am one..... lol
I was a died in the wool bolt man but got into Marlin lever guns. I was very pleasantly surprised at just how accurate my lever rifles are. I haven't sold my bolt action rifles but I am expanding my inventory of lever rifles. I currently have 1895GS, 1895SS, 1894 44mag, Win 1894 30-30 AE. The only one in the bunch that is giving me any issues is the Win 94 AE. That one is just not consistent Tends to spray shots. All of the Marlin lever rifles I own are JM stamped and all perform superb. I also have a Marlin bolt rifle in 25-06 that is Rem barrel and it has issues too.... sprays bullets, fouls fast. I suspect the barrel is bad.
 

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Put another 15-20 years trigger time with the levers and load development for em, and put the same glass on both. Bet there won't be that big of spread on group size. 2-piece stock sets can be more difficult to be consistent in grouping, but removing stress from he fore end can sure tighten patterns into tight groups. DP
Exactly.
Just because lever guns generally require more attention than bolt guns, to get them shooting impressively, doesn't mean they're incapable of doing so.

What always makes me laugh, is when bolt gun fanboys argue to the effect of, "It's pretty obvious that lever actions can't shoot well, since no one uses them in serious competitions."
They get a dumb look on their face, when I remind them, 'That's because they're slower to load single-shot, have OAL limitations, generally use bullets with crappy ballistic coefficients [due to the OAL limitations], and don't play well with prone shooting positions.' It isn't because they can't shoot straight.

There's a time and a place for everything.
The bolt action rifles may greatly outnumber the lever actions in my safe, but that doesn't mean they can all shoot better. ;)
There are good rifles, and there are bad rifles. It doesn't matter what type of action it may be. If the parts used to build it were crap, then there is no way for the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts.
 
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I cut my teeth on a Marlin 30-30 over 42 years ago, it was the first gun I bought and I have bolt actions and AR's in the safe also. If I had to grab just one gun if the SHTF, it will be a lever gun. I am a fair shot with all my guns and each has there place and game I hunt.
 

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I won't pretend that my 336As with 24 inch barrels are as accurate as a bolt gun out to 500 yards--just not gonna happen. But at the 100 yard range--no bolt gun or AR shooter can keep them as tight as my '49 336A 32 WSP. If I had a longer range to shoot on--I suspect I could outdo them out to 225 yards--but that would be it.
 

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Whenever I carry a bolt rifle very far, I wish I'd brought a nice, light lever rifle, with it's comfortable flat receiver right at the point of balance.

Whenever I'm carrying a nice, light lever rifle and I actually see a deer, I wish I'd brought a heavy, accurate, scoped bolt rifle.
That's funny... :biggrin:
 

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Hey, I always say that a Marlin has a bolt too.
You just work it with that manly lever instead of a little uh, appendage :flute: on the side.
 
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Heck! I love em both! I use my bench rest rifles for the Loooooong range stuff (beyond 600 yards) and my lever guns out to 300 yards (depending on caliber).
 

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Nothing wrong with a bolt rifle, I like my levers though just so the bolt guy next to me can get a rise when he see the groups. Levers ain't all that un-accurate as some think. :biggrin: Mr fixit
 

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El Kabong
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But at the 100 yard range--no bolt gun or AR shooter can keep them as tight as my '49 336A 32 WSP.
Dude, I do 1/4 inch groups at 200 yards, dont waste my time shooting the bolt inside of that, thats 45/70 lever range!

Put another 15-20 years trigger time with the levers
In another 15 years Ill be pushing up daisies. Dont have that long left on the planet. Besides once you can shoot, you can shoot anything, on target, at range.

and put the same glass on both. Bet there won't be that big of spread on group size.
Bet you cant fit my scope on a standard lever

IMG_0257.JPG

Janet Reno said every American should own a deer hunting rifle.....
This is mine
 

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Bet you cant fit my scope on a standard lever

View attachment 97624
You might be surprised.
My 2002 336W was purchased new by my little brother. Around that time, he was heavily influenced by all of the "tactical" crap on the market, but didn't have enough experience to understand what was good, what was bad, and what the appropriate application would be.
So, when he decided to scope the 336, he went for what seemed to be the hottest trend: uber-magnification and an illuminated reticle.
He topped that 336 with an illuminated-reticle CenterPoint 6-24x50mm, that weighed as much as the rifle and had an objective bell about 5 inches long. It did, however, fit in the "high" rings he bought (no need for extra height).

That scope was the first thing to go, when the rifle changed ownership; but he did take it on several pronghorn hunts before it got passed around the family. I'll see if I can dig up a picture...
 

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I have but one true bolt gun and it's a Savage 20 ga rifled shotgun!
 
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