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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK to begin with I'm new to reloading rifle and pistol ammo. Only have done shotgun shells up to now...so I'm asking *beginner's questions* so don't laugh too hard....:biggrin:

After buying a few boxes of 45/70 ammo in different brands, I notice the powder can be heard shaking around in the cartridge. And over the years I have noticed this with other caliber rifle cartridges too...although never reloaded any of them.

I am wondering if some brands of "store bought ammo" contains more or less grains of powder than other brands. I'm thinking that's "proprietary info" most likely though....

I'm also wondering how many grains of powder charge some of you are using to reload the 45/70 ammo with.

And if the empty space between the powder and projectile is designed to be used that way/OK as is on the modern 45/70 ammo, or if it would do better if the "empty space" was filled up with another 'filler substance".

Read on one forum some use corn meal and other somewhat unusual 'fillers" but that this was done with black powder cartridges only.

What say ye? (without laughing to hard)
 

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It depends on WHICH powder is being used. All powders have different burn rates which are used accordingly to the desired pressure. Also powders have different densities so you can't just give a weight charge and expect to fly with all powders. Be safe and follow reference loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Is there a good, free online powder/reloading web site that explains the different types/brands of rifle powder, their uses, and loads to be used, until I can get an up to date reloading book? Only ones I have at my use are 1885 to 1991, so I'm thinking they're out of date by now........and I'm in need of good info before I begin to buy a few things I'll need.

And because it likely matters,
the ammo I'll be loading in 45/70 will be for a Marlin DOM 2002 1895CB with the 26" octagonal barrel. It is capable of handling the "max load" I'm told from my investigation here on MOF
 

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As M700 said, be careful what firearm you are reloading for with the correct power level listed in reloading data reference manuals.

Just about all powder manufacturers list online a portion of their recommended loads for the .45-70 Gov't.

And keep in mind just about every creature known to man on this continent was harvested successfully with the handloads listed for the Springfield Trap Door rifle and early BP lever actions. After all, the American bison was virtually extinct 70+ years before Ronnie Barrett was born.
 
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Loaddata.com has a great deal of information as does a number of bullet maker and powder manufacturer websites.
 

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You should really invest in a loading manual. Even one that's a few years old will provide a wealth of information and help you greatly. Just going by stuff you find on the internet can be downright dangerous.
 

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You must Must MUST MAKE SURE you load for the Correct Gun, and Read thst as Marlin 1895!

You CAN use Trapdoor loads in the 1895, But Not loads for the Ruger #1.... These #1 loads are WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE for Marlin 1895's!!!

Another thing, NEVER EVER load "Recipes" given on the internet Unless from Verified Sources ie: Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer etc etc. It's ok to read people's (like me) ideas, But Always look in a loading manual to Verify!!!!

Good Luck and above All

Be Safe!!!!

BloodGroove4570
 

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Different powders burn at differing rates. In addition, the various powders have various densities, that is weight /volume. Fast burning powders will reach the cartridge working pressure earlier than the slower powders. Also, the slower burning powders will generally require a heavier weight (more grains of powder) to reach the same workiing pressure. So, faster burning powders do not fill as much of the case as the slower burning powders do (fewer grains by weight and smaller volume).

Remember that the 45 70 was created to use black powder. The 45 is the caliber, and the 70 is the number of grains of black powder, which would very nearly fill the case. Since smokeless powder is much more efficient than black, most modern loadings do not begin to fill the case up to the base of the bullet. Think dram equivalent (black powder) in shotguns. Since the 45 70 case is not full, you can hear the powder rattle in the case when it is shaken.

Now, another issue. When large capacity cases are loaded to reduced velocity (below standard velocities) say 800 fps for 45 70, small charges of fast powders are required. This will only fill a small fraction of the case capacity, and could result in the powder lying in a small trail along the length of the case when chambered in shooting position. When this happens, ignition will be erratic. OCCASIONALLY very small loads of a fast powder in a large case have been known to detonate rather than burn. This creates extreme overpressure and can burst the case and/or destroy the rifle. For this reason, many peoply who load small charges of fast powder will either use a wad, or a filler to keep the powder near the primer. Fillers used include dacron batting, polystyrine beads (shot buffer), corn meal, cream of wheat, and grits--usually plain, but some folks like flavored grits. Adds to the aroma of the gunpowder. But the fillers can add another problem. Some shooters have had bulged barrels when shooting loads with fillers, usually cotton or dacron batting.

So, with regard to fillers, I would advise you to use wads and fillers only when called for in manufacturer published loading tables. Don't experiment here, unless you don't mind bulging the occasional barrel or blowing up the occasional 1895.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
You must Must MUST MAKE SURE you load for the Correct Gun, and Read thst as Marlin 1895!

You CAN use Trapdoor loads in the 1895, But Not loads for the Ruger #1.... These #1 loads are WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE for Marlin 1895's!!!

Another thing, NEVER EVER load "Recipes" given on the internet Unless from Verified Sources ie: Hodgdon, Lyman, Speer etc etc. It's ok to read people's (like me) ideas, But Always look in a loading manual to Verify!!!!

Good Luck and above All

Be Safe!!!!

BloodGroove4570
Just to make sure it's clear.....The marlin 45/70 I have is a 2002 (DOM)marlin 1895CB 45/70 gov't .

Not the old original made in 1895 cowboy rifle.

From my investigations on here and with marlin...it's safe for the 500 grain(bullet) cartridge...guess I need to hurry up & buy a reloading manual very soon...

Pic below:
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Now, another issue. When large capacity cases are loaded to reduced velocity (below standard velocities) say 800 fps for 45 70, small charges of fast powders are required. This will only fill a small fraction of the case capacity, and could result in the powder lying in a small trail along the length of the case when chambered in shooting position. When this happens, ignition will be erratic. OCCASIONALLY very small loads of a fast powder in a large case have been known to detonate rather than burn. This creates extreme overpressure and can burst the case and/or destroy the rifle. For this reason, many peoply who load small charges of fast powder will either use a wad, or a filler to keep the powder near the primer. Fillers used include dacron batting, polystyrine beads (shot buffer), corn meal, cream of wheat, and grits--usually plain, but some folks like flavored grits. Adds to the aroma of the gunpowder. But the fillers can add another problem. Some shooters have had bulged barrels when shooting loads with fillers, usually cotton or dacron batting.

So, with regard to fillers, I would advise you to use wads and fillers only when called for in manufacturer published loading tables. Don't experiment here, unless you don't mind bulging the occasional barrel or blowing up the occasional 1895.
Thank You!...that is the info I was needing/wanting the most. But the article (on another forum) I was reading was doing that when using *black powder*. Is this also done with other types of modern rifle powder or no? Or just low loads of "fast powder"?
 

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Hey MM,

Take a look here for "reduced" loads Lever Gun Performance Studies. Unique, Universal Clays, HS 6 are all good performers.

For a "step up", 2400 will fill the bill.

For full snort loads, the 4198's, the 3031's, Rx7, H 322 and H 335, may do what you need.

Have found in my pair of 1895's, that loads in the "top" of the Trap Door section of the Manuals, deliver the best accuracy. YMMV. (and will roll venison critters like bunny rabbits)

Later, Mark
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Thank You for the info & for the link. Time to do some reading and buying of books to read as well because I'm unsure of exactly what

, the 4198's, the 3031's, Rx7, H 322 and H 335,
means/refers to. I presume it's the type of powder used....correct?
 

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Yes those are all powders.
 

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Marlin man, you don't need to hurry up. You actually need to slow way down and gain a lot of reloading education before starting to reload. Smokeless powder is best taken from powder manufacturer's tested data which you can get on line. Do not try to make a .45-70 into a modern high velocity cartridge. It has enough case capacity to blow the gun to pieces and seriously hurt you. This case was originally a blackpowder cartridge. Loading with blackpowder is a completely different process with different safety considerations. But blackpowder too can be disasterous if not loaded precisely and correctly. Don't get your education second hand - the guys at work are not a reliable source of safe reloading practices. Go to the manufacturers of your equipment, the powder, primers and bullets and the firearms. Believe me bad accidents happen with reloading far more frequently than is generally suspected. But it is your left hand and eyesight so decide whether or not they are worth the time to really study reloading in depth before beginning. (Also - never shoot anyone else's reloads!).
 

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Hodgdon - The Gun Powder People

Lots of great info there, including pressure tested loads.

Be sure to understand that the .45/70, in deference to the many old, really old, rifles still out there, is loaded to far different power levels to meet different requirements, and to keep from ruining the old antique rifles.

Regards, Guy
^^^

This is what MM says too.

Thank you.

Cate
 

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As M700 said, be careful what firearm you are reloading for with the correct power level listed in reloading data reference manuals.

Just about all powder manufacturers list online a portion of their recommended loads for the .45-70 Gov't.

And keep in mind just about every creature known to man on this continent was harvested successfully with the handloads listed for the Springfield Trap Door rifle and early BP lever actions. After all, the American bison was virtually extinct 70+ years before Ronnie Barrett was born.
^^^

This and thank you.

Cate
 

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Something like this will help. This particular author likes to talk about Marlins.

The ABCs Of Reloading: The Definitive Guide for Novice to Expert by Rodney James (Jan 12, 2011)
 

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When I load my 45/70s with modern, it never even comes close to filling the case.
So I add a veggie wad, and dacron filler, even with gas checked cast.
It seems to lessen recoil, and tighten up the groups

Whats in store boughts may not even be available to the public.
 

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You should really invest in a loading manual. Even one that's a few years old will provide a wealth of information and help you greatly. Just going by stuff you find on the internet can be downright dangerous.
I agree with Mike" 110% .... first thing's first My friend , More so that your shotgun loads , you Do NOT" wanta over pressure that 45/70 Chamber . Go Buy you A New Up To Date Reloading Manual . look at those loads in a new manual , when you first start reloading for that rifle , you wanta know when your First starting to reach your Max. High pressure limit's for that rifle . Best thing for you to do , I think ", being new to rifle or pistol reloading , is to Completely Read that new manual Front to Back , every page , and you will have learned by them Most Everything you need to know and do to reload that 45/70 rifle you have . I Highly" recommend you do that First " my friend ". The Lyman Reloading manual is good investment for the 45/70 ....

Dave
 
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