I know they have a newly developed powder for the LE rounds that they have not let out. Did they tell you what powder and measure to use to get the 2300 fps?
How good is 325gn Leverevolution?
Accuracy seems to be it's strong point but how well does the bullet hang together? Factory loads are 2050/3032, ftx reloads are up to 2150/3336. I called the factory and asked Hornady Engineering how fast you could push the bullet and stay together. They told me up to 2300fps, the bullet would be ok.
Well I can't load the 1895 SS to that but I can load the Ruger No.1 to 2300fps/3817me now thats pretty good for an old 45-70. Has anyone had any experience of how the bullet hits and stays together? 2300fps makes it a pretty flat shooting bullet. Gives you about 212yds MPBR and thats about as far or farther than I want to shoot. At 200 yds it still gives you right at 2000 lbs of energy with a .45 caliber bullet, a lot of things will go down if hit by that big a round. Optimal game weight at 200yds is 724lbs.
"fk"
Well I can't load the 1895 SS to that but I can load the Ruger No.1 to 2300fps/3817me now thats pretty good for an old 45-70. Has anyone had any experience of how the bullet hits and stays together? 2300fps makes it a pretty flat shooting bullet. Gives you about 212yds MPBR and thats about as far or farther than I want to shoot. At 200 yds it still gives you right at 2000 lbs of energy with a .45 caliber bullet, a lot of things will go down if hit by that big a round. Optimal game weight at 200yds is 724lbs.
"fk"
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
yeah they won't tell or publish how to get 2300 that I could find. But 2150fps is with IMR4198 from a 22 inch barrel. Wonder what the pressures are compared to the LVR powder.
Simple fact is that the LE is not a bonded bullet and because of that, the lead will separate from its jacket. I have seen this first hand on a cow elk. However, separate or not, 99% of the time the bullet will completely pass through any game animal in the lower 48 states. This fact has been reported here for bison and moose kills. I never would have seen this separation on the cow elk if it were not for the fact that one of the four bullets my buddy shot at the cow some how came to rest in its rear ankle bone. The copper jacket was in its ankle bone but there was not a trace of lead to be found. First round spun her around and anchored her and the second shot dropped her where she stood but she slid in the snow down the incline to a log jam. The third or fourth shot must have ended up in here ankle bone - and I don't understand to this day why he even took the last two shots.
Some folks just like to run that lever till the magazine is empty...findrichard said:Simple fact is that the LE is not a bonded bullet and because of that, the lead will separate from its jacket. I have seen this first hand on a cow elk. However, separate or not, 99% of the time the bullet will completely pass through any game animal in the lower 48 states. This fact has been reported here for bison and moose kills. I never would have seen this separation on the cow elk if it were not for the fact that one of the four bullets my buddy shot at the cow some how came to rest in its rear ankle bone. The copper jacket was in its ankle bone but there was not a trace of lead to be found. First round spun her around and anchored her and the second shot dropped her where she stood but she slid in the snow down the incline to a log jam. The third or fourth shot must have ended up in here ankle bone - and I don't understand to this day why he even took the last two shots.
You may want to check this out. http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,69669.0.html Didn't do too bad for not being a bonded bullet.
If the 325 leverevolution can't anchor bull moose and brown bear out to 200 yards, then there is no need for it. Looking at it, it should do the trick 8)
I shot about two boxes of the LE. Accuracy was 1.5"-2" (not as good as my handloads) at 100 yards. My back stop is a 12' high dirt berm that catches all the bullets, and it is pretty tough on them. The LE loads are pretty soft if you compare them to the other bullets I have shot into it. Some shed their jackets and some expanded to nearly an inch across but there wasn't 100 grains in weight left. I also shot them into some water filled gallon milk jugs. They make quite a splash but don't penetrate anywhere near the 400 grainers. I normally shoot 400-405gr (Speer and Remington) bullets from 1300-1900 fps and they hold up much better. The Speer 400gr out shoots it for accuracy and the expansion and penetration are awesome. The LE loads are faster and obviously shoot flatter but thats not why I bought a 45/70. I have no doubt they will kill a moose or elk with a picture perfect broadside shot but I have hunted both and never had a standing broadside shot. I will stick with the heavier bullets so I can take my shot from any reasonable quartering angle and hit the vitals. If they were bonded then I would give them serious consideration. They would be great for deer and other medium sized game.
Big bullets let in a lot of air and let out a lot of blood.
Big bullets let in a lot of air and let out a lot of blood.
I don't think I would use this bullet to hunt dangerous game like brown bear. I don't even think Hornady would recommend that. I would use a bullet made for dangerous game.tman said:If the 325 leverevolution can't anchor bull moose and brown bear out to 200 yards, then there is no need for it. Looking at it, it should do the trick 8)
Domenic
Have to agree with Findrichard... It will go right through an elk. It will do alot of damage on the way, which may or may bother you. All I know is the cow was on the ground before I could bring the gun back down to where she'd been. I though I'd missed as there were several standing together. We did find a few pieces of the jacket along the wound channel. My thought is, a few lost pounds of meat vs chasing a wounded animal... I'll keep using them for elk.
Seems if it will shoot thru an elk, it should penetrate a big bear, at least enough to hit vitals.What more is needed?
A dangerous game bullet needs to be able to break heavy bone, like both shoulders. In the event that you have to track a wounded big bear in the woods and you are attacked, you would want a bone crushing bullet that holds together and not just one that gets to the vitals. Many elephant were killed by the .303 British it does not make the .303 a elephant gun. Many hunters were also killed trying. A quality 400 grain hard cast would be my minimum for hunting big bear. As have been shown the gummy will not hold up as well as even the 405 Remington. If anyone thinks about using this bullet on big Bear/dangerous game, they should call and talk to Hornady about that first. If you look at the Hornady reloading book, it will not even recommend there 350's .458's for dangerous game and this is a much stronger built bullet then the gummy.tman said:Seems if it will shoot thru an elk, it should penetrate a big bear, at least enough to hit vitals.What more is needed?
Domenic
My eyes must being playing tricks on me cause it sure looks like in the thread I attached earlier that the FTX held up better that the 405 Rem (and in a much tougher medium, dry paper, not wet). I think the words used were "The Remington 405 gr had the same performance as the Hornady but the bullet only retained 87 grs and the jacket was seperated".reloader458 said:As have been shown the gummy will not hold up as well as even the 405 Remington.
Domenic
Not saying it's a dangerous game bullet, but it should certainly hold it's own.
Hi Bisley,
I was reading 1895fan's post were he said "I normally shoot 400-405gr (Speer and Remington) bullets from 1300-1900 fps and they hold up much better." I think 1650 fps at close range is just a little to fast for the Remington 405 I did see in your thread that you did say the Remington velocity should be retried at 1500 fps. I agree with that as this bullet works best at factory velocity or a little above as intended. I also don't think the Remington is a dangerous game bullet but at lower velocity it is know for decent penetration.
Domenic
I was reading 1895fan's post were he said "I normally shoot 400-405gr (Speer and Remington) bullets from 1300-1900 fps and they hold up much better." I think 1650 fps at close range is just a little to fast for the Remington 405 I did see in your thread that you did say the Remington velocity should be retried at 1500 fps. I agree with that as this bullet works best at factory velocity or a little above as intended. I also don't think the Remington is a dangerous game bullet but at lower velocity it is know for decent penetration.
Domenic
Howdy, 458.
Yeah, if there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that there's two types of people when it comes to bullets. Some want a bullet that will drive a mile through concrete and some want a bullet that will expand, leave a huge wound channel, and leave all it's kinetic energy within the body. I happen to be the second one. Not that I am wrong or right, just of different opinion. It also depends on what you hunt.
That being said, we also fail to take into account what each different bullet is made for. LE's weren't designed for dangerous or extremely large game. They were built for the guy that wants to use his buffalo capable gun to also hunt deer with, where an average expanding bullets really really shines. For hogs, deer, etc., they work superbly. Like Eastwood said "Man's got to know his limitations". A half ton truck will haul bricks and dirt all day long, but you don't want to use it to tow an '35 18,000lb fifth wheel trailer. I think that is where most these conversations run astray. It's not the bullet that's "bad", merely the intended use of it was in a wrong situation. That, and the fact that not everybody buys a 45-70 for wooly mamoths. Some just love the caliber and use it (exclusively) for smaller game. A lot more than many think.
Which ever way you go, large game, small game, cast bullet, or expanding, good luck and good hunting.
Yeah, if there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that there's two types of people when it comes to bullets. Some want a bullet that will drive a mile through concrete and some want a bullet that will expand, leave a huge wound channel, and leave all it's kinetic energy within the body. I happen to be the second one. Not that I am wrong or right, just of different opinion. It also depends on what you hunt.
That being said, we also fail to take into account what each different bullet is made for. LE's weren't designed for dangerous or extremely large game. They were built for the guy that wants to use his buffalo capable gun to also hunt deer with, where an average expanding bullets really really shines. For hogs, deer, etc., they work superbly. Like Eastwood said "Man's got to know his limitations". A half ton truck will haul bricks and dirt all day long, but you don't want to use it to tow an '35 18,000lb fifth wheel trailer. I think that is where most these conversations run astray. It's not the bullet that's "bad", merely the intended use of it was in a wrong situation. That, and the fact that not everybody buys a 45-70 for wooly mamoths. Some just love the caliber and use it (exclusively) for smaller game. A lot more than many think.
Which ever way you go, large game, small game, cast bullet, or expanding, good luck and good hunting.
Yes Bisley
I 100% agree
Domenic
I 100% agree
Domenic
The best part of the bullet debate is that we are lucky enough to have bullet makers who make all the different types of projectiles that fit our immediate need...the hawk , Swift , Garretts, Buffalo Bore and Woodlieghs can and will handle the really tough work of breaking down anything planning to have a serving of ******* smothered in camophlage ;D The 45-70 is always up to the task if we give it the tools to handle the quarry we're after
Best to suit your bullet to your needs.
Guess the brown bears of ole' didn't read gun magazines or study physics. Mostly dropped to .45&50. cal. muzzle loaders{ talk about shot placement!} and then the .44-40, 45-70 and , the 30-30!. Probably more bear and alot of African game dropped to a 1300fps. 405 unscientific bullet only cause it's been around SOO long. Those old timers lived to tell about it. I've seen test that the 325 penetrates at least as well, sometimes better than the 405. Remember way back when gun rags bad mouthed the 444 marlin 240 coreloct as being too fragile. Marlins' catalouge that year showed a factory round Completely penetrating a 3/8 COLD ROLLED steel plate at 100 yards. big browns are taken every year by bow hunters! While technically, not the best, doubt that the 325 couldn't handle it.
, the 30-30!. Probably more bear and alot of African game dropped to a 1300fps. 405 unscientific bullet only cause it's been around SOO long. Those old timers lived to tell about it. I've seen test that the 325 penetrates at least as well, sometimes better than the 405. Remember way back when gun rags bad mouthed the 444 marlin 240 coreloct as being too fragile. Marlins' catalouge that year showed a factory round Completely penetrating a 3/8 COLD ROLLED steel plate at 100 yards. big browns are taken every year by bow hunters! While technically, not the best, doubt that the 325 couldn't handle it.1 - 20 of 32 Posts
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