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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im sure this has been covered before, but Im not sure how to search and sometimes its just easier to ask and cover old ground. :)

But, Im new to reloading, and have been practicing on my ol' pistol rounds. So far so good, and Im really enjoying what I have going.

Now Im interested in loading up my 30-30 rounds, for both of my rifles. Ones a fairly new, and ones an older 1893 thats roughly 70 years old or so.

None the less, as Im checking into what kind of loads to use, and collecting the stuff to reload them; Im kind of at a loss as to how to charge the cases.

Unlike the pistol dies that have a flare/charging die, my new rifle dies have no such set up. I have a basic funnel set up, but that seems highly inefficient and wondered what else is out there. Im not sure what to look for, or what would work best/easiest. Is there even a die that would work with the Lee Classic Turret set?
 

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I load all of my rifle cases the same way, even M1 and AR batches. That is, on a single stage press, different from your turret.

I do all the case prep and get them primed, then throw a charge from the measure, weigh it, pour it in the case and press the bullet in. I'll spot check for OAL. If they need crimping, that's next. Inefficient with time, but absolute allows me to keep up with where I am in the loading process.

For my hunting rifles, this will involve no more than about 50 cases.

M1 (.30-06) I do in 200 round batches. This fits into en-bloc clips in an even number, no loose rounds. When they are shot up, I load them again until that batch of cases is unusable due to number of trimmings or neck cracks.

Same for AR, except the batchs may be larger.

An example from a day's shooting. 250 rounds 5.56, 200 rounds M1, 96 rounds .45 ACP. This was from an organized get-together, and I had teenagers help me, especially with the Garand. I think I got to fire 16 rounds.....Kids love that rifle.

I did not load that all in one day, either.

 

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Pistol's I use a powder thrower on the press, for rifles I weigh each and pour with a funnel
 
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Lee makes a rifle charging die similar to your current dies.

Rifle Charging Die - Lee Precision

I have never used the above die.

I too like Vic in Va use a standalone powder dispenser to measure each charge into a measuring pan which doubles as a funnel.

Sometimes on batches larger than 20 I use a loading block to hold the cases while I charge them. Then use a flashlight to inspect all cases for powder level. When using a loading block you need to use powder that dispenses without problems. I also pour out 10% of the charges to check for weight uniformity.
 

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I use the Lee turret for my rifle rounds too, but all powder charges are individually thrown from my Redding powder measure directly into the sized and primed case. "Efficiency" is far less important than safety and it is critical to have a consistent procedure so that you have integrity checks (periodic OAL measures, periodic powder charge weight checks, etc.) built into the process. A double charge, wrong powder, no powder, etc. are very bad things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lee makes a rifle charging die similar to your current dies.

Rifle Charging Die - Lee Precision

I have never used the above die.

I too like Vic in Va use a standalone powder dispenser to measure each charge into a measuring pan which doubles as a funnel.

Sometimes on batches larger than 20 I use a loading block to hold the cases while I charge them. Then use a flashlight to inspect all cases for powder level. When using a loading block you need to use powder that dispenses without problems. I also pour out 10% of the charges to check for weight uniformity.
I currently do that with my pistol rounds, i use the turret more as a single stage. Im hoping to get more confident and actually use it as designed in the near future
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I use the Lee turret for my rifle rounds too, but all powder charges are individually thrown from my Redding powder measure directly into the sized and primed case. "Efficiency" is far less important than safety and it is critical to have a consistent procedure so that you have integrity checks (periodic OAL measures, periodic powder charge weight checks, etc.) built into the process. A double charge, wrong powder, no powder, etc. are very bad things.
This is what i expected to hear. Currently all i have is the silly powder dips that come with the dies, and the scale that cane in the kit. It would take forever to charge cases that way... :)

But i wasnt sure if there was a good charging die, or if i should just buy a different powder measure; i most definately want to be safe, but i also want efficient too.
 

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I use a combination of those silly dippers and a digital scale:

For a particular load I find not one, but two dippers that approximately equate my desired charge weight. Dip the larger dipper and theow it into the scale, then dip the smaller dipper and tap it (like trickling but faster) till the scale reads what i want it to.

Then I dump the charge into the funnel, cap the case mouth with an upside down bullet (to show that it's been charged) and move to the next.

Takes me between 3-8 seconds a piece, which is much faster that any any other method. I am aware of, with the exception of a volumetric powder measure, which i don't really like using.
 

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Pistol or Rifle, one case at a time..... wish I had a progressive for the pistol but cant afford it when I have to buy the lead all over again.


Doc
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I use a combination of those silly dippers and a digital scale:

For a particular load I find not one, but two dippers that approximately equate my desired charge weight. Dip the larger dipper and theow it into the scale, then dip the smaller dipper and tap it (like trickling but faster) till the scale reads what i want it to.

Then I dump the charge into the funnel, cap the case mouth with an upside down bullet (to show that it's been charged) and move to the next.

Takes me between 3-8 seconds a piece, which is much faster that any any other method. I am aware of, with the exception of a volumetric powder measure, which i don't really like using.
At this point, that is what I have to deal with, except that I have only the lee scale that came with the kit; kind of cumbersome over all to do it that way. But since Im also not in any hurry nor do I really wish to invest too much more, I may just bite it and run them that way.

Really, I havent even bought the powder yet either, so Im just making sure I have my ducks in a row for now.
 

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I am not one to harp on Lee products and use a good many of them, but I really don't care for their scale. The way they display the 1/10thgr bit seems....a bit more iffy than a powder scale should be. Digitals are much quicker and easier to read (which could be translated into less accident prone).

I've had 3 digital scales, and RCBS...powder master, I believe it was called, an off brand Chinese one from cabelas, and a little Hornady pocket scale. The Chinese one from cabelas was untrustworthy...would dance around sometimes and lose zero frequently. The RCBS was wonderful. Seemed much more 'stable'. The weight display would rise, and then stay unless you added more powder. It, sadly, was destroyed by a friends dog. The Hornady pocket scale has been almost as reliable as the RCBS was, but cost the same as the crappy Chinese one. It is about as stable, but does seem to drift a bit over time...but nothing like the other one.

I thing it's also important to mention that I have one of the Lee dipper sets. They are 10 or 15 bucks, but have a wide range of dipper sizes. I am not using heones that come with their dies, as I have found that they never really hold what Lee thinks they should according to their charts. I don't take Lee's word as far as how much of a given powder will fill a particular dipper, as I have not found their chart to ever be quite right.

Hence the two-dipper method. One large one to get close to a target weight, then the tapper to top it off.
 
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First thing I did when I got the Lee kit was toss the Lee scale! I have a digital and a 505.... cant go wrong with either
I really want to pick up a Lee dipper set to see how they work out, I have read where they can be pretty accurate if used properly


Doc
 

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It's 85 yards across a horse pasture to the backstop at my home range. All` the groups shown below were made prone with a sling,the cartridges assembled on a single stage press with powder dippers and the favorite old coffee cup reservoir. I'm especially proud of group two,it was shot with a backpack as a rest,it's ten shots in 1 inch. Most are 10 shots,the 44 cal target is 5 shots. 3 shot groups don't tell you enough,you've got to shoot 10 shots to check your load/rifle consistency. I've been using homemade silly dippers since 1973 using fired shells that I measured and charted for the various powders and their charges thrown. The handles are silver soldered on to the cartridge cases. In 41 years,I've rechecked the charges occasionaly,or if I get a new powder,but surprisingly enough,the volume never changes.
Living in Rapid City,I have friends that work at the ammo making companies,and their machines turn out 25,000-40,000 rounds a day,and the machines throw their charges volumetrically,not by weight.
!5 or 20 million buffalo (estimated) were removed from the Dakota Plains by guys with silly powder dippers,loading at night around the fire. It was called "running ball".
Target 4.jpg Target 5.jpg Target 2.jpg Target 1.jpg 7 Dec a.jpg
Volumetric loading with dippers is extremely consistent once you perfect your technique,which is fall-off-a-log easy.

Rob
 

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I use the Lee dippers anytime I'm using tubular powder. My RCBS uniflow does not throw uniform weights with tubular powder. So I dip each load and weigh it and use my trickler to get to the proper weight of powder. But if I'm using Ball powder like W748 I'll set up my uniflow and you can load cases as fast as you can throw the lever. I check weight after every 10 cases to be sure the powder charge is the same. I rarely load more than 20 rifle cases at one sitting so it doesn't get to be tedious.
 

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Figure your volume - you can use the Lee charts to get in the ball park.
Then you can cut a brass down to make a custom dipper.
This assumes you don't have an issue with volume measure - which is an old argument from way back.
Truth is the manufacturers use volume measuring to make theirs.
 

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Rob42049

Can you show them home made dippers here? I'd like to see'em!

Thanks
BloodGroove4570
 

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I use a powder measure, and weigh every 3rd charge or so on my beam scale. It has been in the last few months I started doing it this way. For the 14 years before that, I weighed each charge on the beam scale, pored with a funnel. Scale pan was filled by using the Lee dipper or dippers that got me closest, then trickling the rest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I am not one to harp on Lee products and use a good many of them, but I really don't care for their scale. The way they display the 1/10thgr bit seems....a bit more iffy than a powder scale should be. Digitals are much quicker and easier to read (which could be translated into less accident prone).

I've had 3 digital scales, and RCBS...powder master, I believe it was called, an off brand Chinese one from cabelas, and a little Hornady pocket scale. The Chinese one from cabelas was untrustworthy...would dance around sometimes and lose zero frequently. The RCBS was wonderful. Seemed much more 'stable'. The weight display would rise, and then stay unless you added more powder. It, sadly, was destroyed by a friends dog. The Hornady pocket scale has been almost as reliable as the RCBS was, but cost the same as the crappy Chinese one. It is about as stable, but does seem to drift a bit over time...but nothing like the other one.

I thing it's also important to mention that I have one of the Lee dipper sets. They are 10 or 15 bucks, but have a wide range of dipper sizes. I am not using heones that come with their dies, as I have found that they never really hold what Lee thinks they should according to their charts. I don't take Lee's word as far as how much of a given powder will fill a particular dipper, as I have not found their chart to ever be quite right.

Hence the two-dipper method. One large one to get close to a target weight, then the tapper to top it off.
Lol, thats what prompted me to ask, i really dont like the lee scale. The .10 marks are questionable, and the removable tray is awkward.
 
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