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Discussion Starter #1
45.3 grains(Hornady) vs. 50.0 grains(Hodgdon) max load using IMR 4198 with Hornady 350 grain FP/RN. Which one do you guys feel comfortable with? I am currently loading 43 grains of IMR 4198, winchester brass and CCI 200 primers with the 350 grain hornady FP that produces mild recoil and is fun to shoot. I thought about pushing the loads a little hotter for gee whiz situations, but the question is which data to follow?

And before I get crucified by all of the reloaders, here is my discalimer: I know that reloading data is a "guide" that should be used to create load data and it is up to the handloader to watch for pressure signs in his/her firearm. I just find it hard to believe that nearly 5.0 grains of difference is normal for a max load.
 

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Are both data for the Marlin, or is the Hornady data for level 1?
 

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Hornady loads the 45-70 to 40,000 CUP for the Marlin...according to their 7th edition.

That nearly 5 grains difference....is most likely due to case capacity. I have Hornady's 7th edition at home (I'm not there) but I don't remember what brass they used, most likely their own.
 

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Brass can seem to make a big difference. I have noticed that any 6.5x55 Swede load that uses R-P brass is a noticable bit lower max than other brass, espec Norma. Norma for the mm brass (others too, I think) are considered stronger and larger capacity. In my 6.5 commercial, I use the higher max loads because all my brass is Norma, but I also work up.
 

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Is there much of a velocity differance between the two loads in question? I find the chrony a most usefull tool. If I reach the top velocity shown I stop, even if i'm under on the powder charge.

Brass can also make a big differance as others have stated. Have you cked any other sources ? I would. ;)

John
 

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I've had experiences with velocity peaking out at the listed "max load" and then slow down considerably even when I've worked a load past the "max". No signs of overpressure, no bad things happening, just became slower...like jeepster said, a chronograph is a great tool. A "hot load" can turn luke warm for reasons I couldn't possibly think of an answer for. ???
 

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Could be brass but it could be a bunch of things from powder lots to primers to crimp to COAL to rifle chambers etc. If both sets of data are based on a 40,000CUP max and the equipment was calibrated acurately its likely one of the things I listed. If you look at a bunch of data (IMO we all should) you'll see data all over the place, some max loads in one fall under starting loads in others sometimes. Some focus on the upper end, some on the lower & some go from one end to another. But if you examine it all carefully theres alot to be learned, most important to me was take NOTHING for granted. As noted brass can & does matter, but chamber differences between guns can matter just as much. Start low & work up. If you reach max published velocity 4 grains under max you are still at max, or I am anyway. I stop, when I venture that far anyway, when I reach either max velocity or max charge. I should add that when playing near the top a chronograph is a NECESSITY. Other wise you wont know you are over max or under max or anything else, except powder charge which, to me, is meaningless without velocity.
 

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Even same capasity brass can make a difference due to the anneling. I had some Bell 500-450(necked 500nitro) that showed to much presure at 90 grains of IMR483 . Yet the Hornady would take 98 grains (470nitro)/with no troulble
 

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I use that load of 43 gr. of IMR-4198 behind the Hornady 350 gr. and if I remember right it is at 1800 FPS and about 29,000 C.U.P. on pressure. There is still a lot of sources that hold the Marlin to a limit of of 29,000 C.U.P. and ignore that Marlin says the action will handle 40,000.

Hogdon is showing loads that go up to the 40,000 limit that Marlin states the 1895 will handle. I have taken my 1895 up to 47 gr. of IMR-4198 with the Hornady 350 gr. FP and did not observe any signs of excessive pressure. I went back to 43-44 grs. as that was my best accuracy and the load went clean though several bison and there was no need for the higher velocity. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #12
First off, thanks for the replies that did not insult my intelligence :)

If I remember correctly, the hornady data uses Winchester brass. And I think I read somewhere(on here) that hodgdon uses the same. Either way, I think what is most important is the purchase of a good chrono...at least that's what I have gathered from the replies. Food for thought though......I wonder what velocity wil start to diminish the penetration of the hornady 350 gr FP.


P.S. I don't need any more velocity than what I should(published) be pushing, I was just curious as to what others had for an opinion.
 

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Hodgdon is using CCI 200 primers while Hornady is using federal 210's, sometimes that would be enough to justify 4 grains difference. I have used Hodgdon load data and been ok and have no pressure signs. My favorite load is 48 grains behind a 210 though shoots so good out of my guide gun.
 
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