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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello! I need help or input in a dilemma I have today. I am planing a moose hunt next October and I will use my guide gun for that hunt. The problem I struggle with is how should I set my scope? I expect range to be from 50 to 200 yards. Bullet is a 350 gr cast with 52 gr IMR3031. I don’t have access to a chrony and only gestimat speed at 1800 fps. So sight in at 200 will give a 6 inches window from 50 to 235 yards
What do you think of that? Or should I zero at 100 and limit my shot to 150 yards? Or worst go get myself a 30.06?
 

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Getting a chrono would certainly help.


I run some numbers through my calculator

1800fps
scope height 1.7"
350 bullet - bc - .200

50yds + 1.5" high
75yds - 2" high
100yds + 1.5" high
125yds - 0"
150yds - 2.5" low
175yds - 6.25" low
200yds - 11.5" low
225yds - 18" low


If I was after moose and wanted to take my 45/70 and wanted a little fudge factor on my 200yds that's pretty much what I'd run with.


Possibly a scope with a dial like a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x20, Leupold CDS, or possibly one with a BDC type reticle would match up.
 

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I personally split the difference. I sight in a couple inches high at 100, then I'm only a couple inches low at 150, and only have to hold over about a 8" - 10" at 200. Works for me. Try it a couple different ways and see what works best for you. Good luck on your hunt.
 

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ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator

play around with the numbers. Assuming the kill zone on a moose is 16"...

Sighting in about 7.75" high at 100 yards will get you a Maximum Point Blank Range of about 250 yards, meaning: you won't have to adjust for holdover at any distance inside 250 yards.

However, looking in Lyman #49...
They show a 330 cast bullet out of a 24" universal receiver at 1665 fps on 50 gr of IMR-3031, and 1900 fps over 55 gr IMR-3031

Your bullet is 20 grains heavier, coming out of a barrel 6" shorter than what they tested. Best guess on your MV is going to be no better than 1700 fps, probably more like 1600-1650

Plugging those numbers in, and assuming a BC of about .275...
sight-in at 100 yds should be ~8" high, and your MPBR is reduced from 250 yards to 230 yards. 20 yards loss on MPBR isn't enough to go jacking around with your loads, or at least it wouldn't be for me. It sort of depends on the environment. If you're gong to be hunting thick alder stands, you might not even be able to see more than 50 or 75 yards anyway. If you're hunting more open country or along shore lines, maybe it would make a difference for you. I have an aperture on my 1895GBL, so I'm not going to shoot past 200 yards anyway.

If you wanted to be more conservative, you could assume a kill zone of 12" instead of 16"
 
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Also, Lyman shows their 330 gr cast mold with a BC of .275, give or take a little. That's probably a fair estimate for your 350 gr.
 

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I just got back into a 45-70, and I've been thinking about the same thing...bullet drop/distance.
I decided to just put up a target and shoot mine at 200-250 yards and measure the drop.
I haven't done it yet, but I intend to.
You can run numbers and all that's fine, but real world hard data on your rifle and your load
is the only way to know for sure what you need to know.
 

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Also, here's a BC estimator: https://tmtpages.com/calcbc/calcbc.htm.

I played around with it a bit, then plugged that number into the MPBR calculator. Even for my 425 gr and 525 gr BTB at say 1550-1700 fps, 200 yards is about where my zero needs to be, at about 7.5 - 8" high at 100 yards.
 

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I prefer to sight all my centerfire hunting rifles, regardless of caliber, in about 2" high at 100 yards, and estimate the drop from there. If i expect really long ranges, the same 2" high, but at 150 yards. It's worked for me for over 40 years.

Of course, all these new scopes with the BDC crosshairs in them makes it truly easy--if you have a place to sight in out to 200 yards or so.
 

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I just got back into a 45-70, and I've been thinking about the same thing...bullet drop/distance.
I decided to just put up a target and shoot mine at 200-250 yards and measure the drop.
I haven't done it yet, but I intend to.
You can run numbers and all that's fine, but real world hard data on your rifle and your load
is the only way to know for sure what you need to know.
should have specified...all the stuff I provided is for a starting point. only way to know for sure is to put holes in paper or ring the gong.
 
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Also, here's a BC estimator: https://tmtpages.com/calcbc/calcbc.htm.

I played around with it a bit, then plugged that number into the MPBR calculator. Even for my 425 gr and 525 gr BTB at say 1550-1700 fps, 200 yards is about where my zero needs to be, at about 7.5 - 8" high at 100 yards.
I think these are great places to start answering your question. I start almost any range prep for a new round at https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

It is not perfect but it enables you to input enough of the variables to get a print out of the drop at any range out to your chosen distance. With the 45/70 I start with a 100 yd zero to get a baseline and then shift the zero and the target distance until I get some understanding. The you have to put it on paper to see what your gun does with that specific bullet.

Good luck!
 

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I think these are great places to start answering your question. I start almost any range prep for a new round at https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

It is not perfect but it enables you to input enough of the variables to get a print out of the drop at any range out to your chosen distance. With the 45/70 I start with a 100 yd zero to get a baseline and then shift the zero and the target distance until I get some understanding. The you have to put it on paper to see what your gun does with that specific bullet.

Good luck!
Hornady is definitely a go-to, especially for my scoped and flatter-shooting rifles.

Nice thing about the MPBR calculator is that, let's assume a 16" vital zone, you know you're going to be almost exactly 8" low at your MPBR. For my rifles with apertures, 200 yards is my limit anyway.
 
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Why not go JFP bullets and shoot a faster load?
I have killed deer with cast bullets in original Trapdoors and Sharps but find that heavy load JHP bullets fired from the Marlins do a much better job.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Why not go JFP bullets and shoot a faster load?
I have killed deer with cast bullets in original Trapdoors and Sharps but find that heavy load JHP bullets fired from the Marlins do a much better job.
I could but as I cast my own bullets I want to close the loop so to speak... I want the pride of harvesting a moose with my home made stuff.
 

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I could but as I cast my own bullets I want to close the loop so to speak... I want the pride of harvesting a moose with my home made stuff.
I'd look at a place like rotometals. The lead and lead alloys aren't as cheap as WW, but still pretty cheap. Best thing is you're going to get predictable BNH. Even the expensive stuff is still only going to run you $4-$5/lb.

Even at $5, that's still 21 cents per bullet.

They have Lyman #2 alloy for sale at $3.40/lb. It has a BNH of about 16. https://www.rotometals.com/lyman-2-bullet-metal-5-pounds-90-lead-5-tin-5-antimony/

I'd prefer 18-23* BNH for moose, but I think 16 is still pretty good.

Not to diminish the idea of "home made" in case you think buying a pre-made alloy is sort of cheating, because I think what you're doing is awesome...

You didn't mine the lead (or any of the other metals in the WW alloy) for the WW. You didn't mine the copper and zinc for the brass. You didn't make the powder. And you didn't make your rifle. In anything remotely resembling civilization, you will have to rely on the expertise and skills of other people. From a "home made" perspective, the only things different between WW and buying form a shop like rotometals is 1) cost and 2) predictability. Cost is still minimal, but predictability from a known metal shop is 100%.

*As a frame of reference, Marshall at BTB makes his bullets up out of his own alloy to arrive at a BNH of around 22 or 23. Linotype has the same BNH, but straight linotype is more brittle than Marshall's alloy. The Lyman #2 sold by roto is good stuff. 5# of it will turn into about 115 bullets at 300 gr each.
 
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I sight all mine in at 100yds and then shoot them at 200yds so I know how much hold over I need at that distance. And like sgt_zim I limit my shots to 200 yds mostly because that is what I'm comfortable with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I'd look at a place like rotometals. The lead and lead alloys aren't as cheap as WW, but still pretty cheap. Best thing is you're going to get predictable BNH. Even the expensive stuff is still only going to run you $4-$5/lb.

Even at $5, that's still 21 cents per bullet.

They have Lyman #2 alloy for sale at $3.40/lb. It has a BNH of about 16. https://www.rotometals.com/lyman-2-bullet-metal-5-pounds-90-lead-5-tin-5-antimony/

I'd prefer 18-23* BNH for moose, but I think 16 is still pretty good.

Not to diminish the idea of "home made" in case you think buying a pre-made alloy is sort of cheating, because I think what you're doing is awesome...

You didn't mine the lead (or any of the other metals in the WW alloy) for the WW. You didn't mine the copper and zinc for the brass. You didn't make the powder. And you didn't make your rifle. In anything remotely resembling civilization, you will have to rely on the expertise and skills of other people. From a "home made" perspective, the only things different between WW and buying form a shop like rotometals is 1) cost and 2) predictability. Cost is still minimal, but predictability from a known metal shop is 100%.

*As a frame of reference, Marshall at BTB makes his bullets up out of his own alloy to arrive at a BNH of around 22 or 23. Linotype has the same BNH, but straight linotype is more brittle than Marshall's alloy. The Lyman #2 sold by roto is good stuff. 5# of it will turn into about 115 bullets at 300 gr each.
I buy the lead, thin,and antimony from a foundry and mix my own alloy to replicate Lyman no 2 .I never test for hardness but they are pretty hard. No nail mark on the bullet with the nail test. Shipping cost from Rotometal would be a deal breaker for me as I live in Canada. I dont evean know if lead would clear custom.
 
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