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Discussion Starter #1
I always have to have my mind going. My new thoughts are on energy sources just wanting to know if anyone has looked into this?
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

Hydrogen?

I googled hydrogine couldn't find anything.

Matt

And no, just some stuff during chemistry class.

Matt
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

A friend of mine, who is a mechanic, did some experimenting with hydrogen gas and found that it is an inplosion and not an explosion. The energy released from the process won't run a conventional engine.

I helped him some on this and he decided that, right now, it is more hype than anything productive.

John
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

jpickar said:
A friend of mine, who is a mechanic, did some experimenting with hydrogen gas and found that it is an inplosion and not an explosion. The energy released from the process won't run a conventional engine.

I helped him some on this and he decided that, right now, it is more hype than anything productive.

John
Not at all meaning to be argumentative, but I wonder if that is really true. It is a volatile gas, just like propane and thus rapid expansion is achieved when combusted.. Pictures of the Hindenburg blowing up sure seem to support that conclusion. I heard that it can run an internal combustion engine, and what comes out the tailpipe is water vapor only. However admittedly I don't know everything and have zilch experience other than what I have read up on..
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

The "implosion" does release energy. The problem is there isn't enough energy released to operate the conventional internal combustion engine. There are other issues too, but they aren't relavent.

The hindenburg was a different situation. Energy was released, but it wasn't "contained". BUT Impressive.

If there was a way to harness hydrogen economicly it would have been done. It has been done and is used, but it isn't "economicly feesable".

No problem with questions. But if you want a more scientific explanation-- better ask some one else and this is as far as my experiance goes. ;D

John
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

With all due respect, your mechanic friend is incorrect.

Up here in BC we have transit buses powered by hydrogen. They are often broken (from what I read in the paper), but they do work when not in the garage :)

When hydrogen burns there is indeed plenty of pressure produced. Many of the rockets used in the Early space program ran on liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. The positive pressure produced (i.e. Thrust) was enough to put several tons on the moon.

Chris.
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

The main problem with hydrogen as a fuel is that free (chemically unbound) hydrogen basically does not exist here on earth. All of the processes that produce it (by breaking chemical bonds) require more energy input than is possible to recover by chemically recombining it with oxygen.

Chris.
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

gunlaker,

Thanks for your reply! ;D You made my point about it not being economicaly feesable by stating that the "BC transit buses" use it. I am willing to bet the bus system is run by the government! Need I say more about that? ;D ;D ;D

I didn't say it can't be done, just not economically. And you supported that by your 2nd reply stating that chemically unbound hydrogen does'nt exist here on earth.

You said that well. ;)

John
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

jpickar said:
gunlaker,

Thanks for your reply! ;D You made my point about it not being economicaly feesable by stating that the "BC transit buses" use it. I am willing to bet the bus system is run by the government! Need I say more about that? ;D ;D ;D

I didn't say it can't be done, just not economically. And you supported that by your 2nd reply stating that chemically unbound hydrogen does'nt exist here on earth.

You said that well. ;)

John
Yessir. The buses were put into place by our misguided liberal government to " impress the world" during the last winter olympics ;D

Chris.
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

My mate up the road has fitted his motor home (converted Bedford bus with a 7ltr 6cyl. diesel) with a supplementry hydrogen system and it seems to work well. It produces the hydrogen on demand from a Jar of water with stainles electrodes inside it. It makes plenty of gas, I've seen it work and i got to his place one day just after he had a mishap when a too light wire burnt through inside the jar, the top blew of it and hit the roof of the shed. ;D ;D

So, yes, it does work and the plans and instructions are available on the net.

Cheers,
Mark.
 

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Re: Has anyone messed with hydrogine gas

The main engine of the space shuttle burns a hydrogen/oxygen mix...talking about the the shuttle engine here, not the solid rocket boosters you see on liftoff. The shuttles engines are used once it is in orbit...there is no visible flame from the engine.

An engine test...the engine is running... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shuttle_Main_Engine_Test_Firing_cropped_edited_and_reduced.jpg

A little out of the scope of this discussion, but its about all I know on the subject...then there are hydrogen fuel cells.

Hydrogen (mixed with oxygen) is also used for underwater welding and cutting...acetylene becomes unstable just a few feet underwater (the pressure)
 

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Seems like we as the dominate species here on earth needs a true economical energy source sooner or later. I know, I must sound to some like a liberal here by saying that, but hear me out. Kinds seems funny when we are sitting on a molten ball of fire that contains more energy then could ever be used in a million years to be running out of energy and paying through the nose for everything because of it. Hydrogen gas could be used as a fuel to run an internal combustion engine with zero pollution but the gas must now be manufactured by conventional energy sources which are expensive, either to fuel, such as a fossil fuel plant, or very expensive to build such as wind/solar/nuclear/hydro. At some point we are going to need to get past the mantle, there are places on the earth where this could be done easier than others, then use the inexhaustable heat source to produce electricity, perhaps with injecting water and running steam turbines, nothing new about that. There is a volcanic mountain here in Alaska, Mt Spur that is in the process of being experimented on for the production of electricity.

Build a power plant that runs on heat from the core of the earth and cheap hydrogen fuel could be a reality. Now which corporations stand to lose out from that? ;D

Think I'll go gas up the truck, yep, a hundred out to do it! :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ok if you have a car that has power alternator that power is not all used could that not be used to generate Hydrogen gas at no extra cost.
I am tired of waiting for the goverment to come up with an alternative.
 

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Yes, as stated in my reply above. You can make hydrogen from water using 12 or 24 volts. The unit takes up little room and is simple to make.

Mark.
 

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ithca db said:
ok if you have a car that has power alternator that power is not all used could that not be used to generate Hydrogen gas at no extra cost.
I am tired of waiting for the goverment to come up with an alternative.
It is true that an alternator could produce hydrogen, but the load placed on its windings needs to come from somewhere, the engine will simply burn more gas and the energy gained will have less BTU's than the gas it took to produce it.

As for waiting for the gov to come up with alternatives, the gov is no longer in the business of doing these sorts of things. The gov placed men on the moon, but at tremendous cost so now everybody wants the gov out of their lives and wallets and expects private enterprise to develop these sorts of things, but there is NO MONEY TO BE MADE in producing free energy!! :mad:

Damn, still haven't gassed the truck, better soon before it jumps another 30 cents a gal!
 

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It is true that an alternator could produce hydrogen, but the load placed on its windings needs to come from somewhere, the engine will simply burn more gas and the energy gained will have less BTU's than the gas it took to produce it.
One could use a stream with a fair drop to power an alternator to produce the hydrogen (and the corresponding oxygen). The problem would be compressing it so one would have enough fuel to move the pistons of the engine.
 

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I did a little research a year or 2 ago. Compressing hydrogen is limited by self detonation. I can't remember ... 30 40psi. When experimenting with it you must be in well ventilated area. Where propane and heavy fuels creep along the floor, hydrogen gathers in the rafters. Some people have raised their roof by simply turning on a light switch. I did find a programmable micro pressure switch on the net. That "seemed" to be an answer or help to the process. But I did not ever take it anywhere.
 

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I know the first part to my post has nothing to do with energy but bear with me for a sec. I was a computer guy for the last 25 years... They have the technology and have for years to make a normal size SD card with 1TB of storage space, This was said by the inventor of the SD card. They dont want to give the technology away, they want to just up it a little each year so you pay out the wahzoo for it over time. Who's to say that they dont have the technology already to do things like Nitrogen powered cars, They have had the technology since the 50 to make a cadilac get around 100mpg.... They dont want people to be energy independant because then they could not make more money. People come out with ideas all the time and are threatened or even killed for their inventions by big oil or gas companies. If you dont sell then you have an accident.

I for one believe that we have more technology then they let on, They just dont want to give it to us because they then would not make alot of money.

Doc
 

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Type in water into gas on your computer. There is a out fit you can make to put on your car that has to do with hydrogen. Improves mil edge as well as performance. Says this was started looking into back during ww2 when the fighters were flying so close to the water they would suck spray from the ocean into the super chargers and would get a boost in power.
 

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Gunlaker is right; Hydrogen does indeed explode and it is incredibly dangerous. I've seen the results of small H2 explosions. It is a real explosion. 8 lbs of water are formed per pound of H2 oxidized. It is an exothermic reaction and creates enough heat to vaporize that water. Steam expands to about 64 times the volume of a pound of water. It is quite the exponential expansion. Pure H2 in the right concentration requires no ignition source to burn and explode, only oxygen. It will oxidize in ~4-75% by volume atmospheres. Flame speeds and mass burning velocities are high. Sure, it can be generated by hydrolysis and burned in a vehicle. Personally, I want no part of it until technology improves. I say this because I work around compressed H2 every day and I'd hate to think somebody got hurt because they didn't respect it for what it really is.
 
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