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Effective hunting range 45 Colt VS the 357 Magnum

36K views 43 replies 17 participants last post by  Jeeper44mag 
#1 ·
I was curious which rifle would you choose for hunting deer in the occasional black bears if I were drawn at tag. They are both very good rounds, 45 Colt would have a whole lot more penetration first the 357 I would gather.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Within its limitations, the 357 is fine for deer. I'm sure it would work on bear, but there are much better choices. The 45 Colt when loaded in higher pressure loads is no slouch. I can shoot the 357 farther more accurately. If given a choice, I would choose something else...

To take advantage of either, it sure helps if you reload.
 
#4 ·
Depends on what you are hunting.
I really like the 357 Mag round it shoots pretty flat and the power is good.
I wouldn't use it to take out a deer at 150 yards tho.
I also wouldn't use it to take out a bear unless I had no choice and it was
pretty darn close to me.

A 44 mag is 1/3rd more powerful than a 357 Mag and unless you need a
pistol cartridge use a rifle cartridge. 30-30 Win, 35 Remington, 444 marlin,
45-70 Govt.
All when loaded properly will take whatever game you like.

The 357 Mag is sure fun to shoot tho.
 
#5 ·
Well trapper your are right both are fine rounds. The 45colt can be loaded quite stout with 300gr pills and will probably take any game you point it at. The 357 is hoot to plink with and very effective on Deer sized game, not sure I'd try it on a Bear though. If those are the only two rounds you are choosing from I'd have to say the 45colt IMHO. If the sky is the limit well then give me a 45-70 loaded with 405gr hard cast at about 1500fps should punch right through a Deer or Bear quite nicely and do minimal damage to the meat, again just my humble opinion.
JB
 
#6 ·
If you handload the 45 is the obvious answer, it can be loaded pretty hot.You shouldn't have any trouble getting 1200 FPS or better with a 300 gr round out of a rifle, that's going to hit pretty hard.
I have a .357 and while I have no trouble taking it deer hunting I'd be reluctant to go after a bear with it, unless I had no choice.
Then again, which rifle do you shoot better? All the power in the world is useless if you miss, or don't have confidence in your ability to hit with it.
GH1:)
 
#10 ·
Rossi ( model 92 ) is ( or was ) avail in 454, but not the 94 Marlin. I have read that the Marlin won't handle the higher pressure. I have also read that the 45 Colt can be " hot rodded " very close to the 454. Also some are taking 454 Brass , trimming to 45 Colt length for hotter loads.
Decisions, decisions.
The 357 (38spcl ) would no doubt be a fun gun and great for deer. Bear tho.... ?? I would want a bit more " umph " just depends on what your gonna expect out of it.
BoB
 
#12 ·
Supposedly the lockup on the 1892 design is stronger than the 1894.
This is also what I have heard from various sources.
 
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#31 · (Edited)
The 1892 is A stronger action. That loading I listed was for A marlin. Here is A good read in Action strength and some interesting .45 Colt loads. Buy A Rossi at your own risk!
45 Colt In Lever Action Rifles
What 1892 rifle would you choose in 45 Colt?

Would you buy a Rossi in 454 Casull? You are very knowledgeable on the lever guns.
 
#14 ·
Got my first 1894.357 a few years ago and started reloading for it. I'm very good shot with them and have not had the needed to use my larger caliber rifles since. For the game we have in Missouri, there isn't really any need for anything bigger, most game can be taken with a 22lr.
 
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#15 ·
I have a big shoot to go to today but that looks like a good article so I'm bookmarking it to
read later.
Very few companies make 1892's, I know Rossi, Winchester and Cimarron do.
Uberti doesn't.
 
#17 ·
I believe Cimarron imports for Chiappa.
I'd like to see one of those up close but Chiappa is worse than Rossi for
parts and repair. :ahhhhh:
 
#18 ·
45 Colt guns.

A few things to think about if you are including Henry in your look for a .45 Colt, they have a limitation on the size of bullet at 270-grains. You have to call them or email them to get that information (my email and their response is attached View attachment 270 grain bullets max.pdf View attachment COL.pdf ).
It has to do with bullet length, which is restricted because they just used the .357Mag mechanics which is a slightly shorter COL than a .45 Colt with with bigger bullets.

As for loads, if you haven't looked, most of the loading manuals have two sections for the .45 Colt rifle (and handgun) with one for older ("SAA and Replicas) firearms and one for "newer" (T/C, Encore, and Ruger) firearms. The Sierra manual shows loads for "Winchester and Marlin 45 Colt" in the rifle section. I'm up on this because I'm trying to work up a .45 Colt that will work in Ruger New Model Blackhawk 6" revolver and the Henry (should have gotten a Marlin). I have a friend that shoots the Rossi Pump which doesn't have the restriction like the Henry.

Hope this helps a little.
 
#21 ·
The 45 colt loaded hot will take any bear in the lower 48 with the right bullet. I have 45 colt (Winchester and H&R) and 454 rifles (2 Rossi's) and Ruger revolvers in 45 colt. With my hand loads using 335 gr SWC's, max dose of H-110 from the Hodgdon site, I'm running very close to factory 45-70 power. Try to tell me that's not enough for any Blackie. I love my 357 rifles, but for bear, use the 45. DP
 
#30 ·
There is a post on 24campfire where a guy shot a nuisance brown bear in Alaska with a 12 gauge brenneke Slug and it did nothing and than grabbed the 45 Colt lever action and shot and killed it with the round passing through the bear. He posted the picture of the brenneke slug. So I now question shotgun slugs on big bears.
 
#22 ·
To answer your question, the effective range for both in my opinion is 100 yards....maybe out to 125 yards. My hunting load for the 45 Colt is a 292 cast TLC454-290-RF which clocks 1570 fps at the muzzle with 1598 fpe. At 100 yards it still retains 1114 fpe. This load is a real thumper on both ends.

For hunting with the 357 magnum I use a cast 170 grain RF launched at 1754 fps with 1175 fpe at the muzzle. At 100 yards the energy is at 749 fpe.

Both of these loads when sighted in at 100 yards will drop 2-2.5 inches at 125 yards and then drop like a rock after that.

Without a doubt if I thought I would run into a black bear, and loaded my own, the 45 colt will be my choice.
 
#23 ·
efective range on either caliber comes down a ton of factor, from how well you can place the bullet being at the top of the list, and HWAT you feel is enought power to kill "X" game
I have seen folks kill things with .22's, and bow and arrows with more or less rocks on them for heads
NOW would I do what I have seen
HECK NO< unless I had no other option
many folks like to challenge themselves with using lesser power things to kill critters, and some folks think there super accurate and thus can place a bullet where it needs be 99.9% of the time in there caliber of choice
ME< personally I think, I prefer to use more caliber than what's needed than say JUST enough or, rely on super precice bullet placement
I like to have enough gun to hep with any slight error I might make in a hunting shooting
as hunting shooting for most is a far cry of a change than shooting from a bench, and opens the door for a lot more small things to go wrong or just come into play
I personally wouldn't be shooting a bear with a .357, unless it was super close, and I had to
WAY too many better calibers out there for killing bears, and deer too if you ask me
old saying comes to mind
rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it
and that folks, I mean
enough gun for the job
I don't like tracking wounded game, yet alone game that has big teeth and big claws and is way stronger than I am
been there done that, and never liked it(not by me, but helping recover game in the past shot by others)
everyone's effective range and caliber is some times up to them
.357 .45 colt,c an be a good deer caliber for sure
but me, I still like mroe zip to my deer/bear guns
 
#24 ·
Effective range of a caliber is not up to the individual but knowing the effective range of a caliber and bullet is. As stated so many times by so many, shot placement is critical but knowing if that bullet will punch through bone and tissue into the kill zone while doing massive damage is also just as critical. Just because someone can place a 45 Colt slug or 357 magnum slug into a 6 inch circle time after time at 200 yards does not make it a effective 200 yard caliber. Any gun a person shoots well and knows the limitation is enough gun.

As stated by dpe.ahoy, a 45 Colt loaded hot and with the proper bullet is a bear caliber within it's effective range. But the shooter better know what that effective range is and not fudge with hearsay and chest thumpers that claim otherwise. The old 45-70 cannot be denied as a hard killing caliber for anything in North America, but it does so by driving a large, slow, and heavy bullet that is hard to stop. That bullet will drive deep while destroying vitals and no zip or expansion needed. With today's powders and bullets the old 45 Colt can be loaded up to the bottom power end of the 45-70.

Inside and up to 100 yards I'll put my Marlin 45 Colt and my loads up against any 308 or 30-06 out there and my loads aren't even max.
 
#25 ·
Out of the typical carbine, a .45 Colt (using just a mild "hot" load) will be doing 1400+ fps pushing a 250+ grain bullet. That yields a 200 yd velocity around 1000 fps. EASILY killing velocity even at 200 yds *IF* you can put your shot in the right spot.

Luis
 
#26 ·
a .22 has killed every thing from an elephant to a mouse
doesn't make it a good choice for all critters, even if it has killed one!
as for FPS at any range, that is only half the battle of what will work best, as a .17 mg can be zipping pretty fast out there, but I wouldn't shoot anything that can eat me with it LOL
SHot placement is a HUGE factor, and what I imagine we all aim for in killing things
BUT lets face it we are NOT all perfect
and having a little more bullet and energy all helps make our mistakes still work into killing shots AT times, as even the most powerful caliber won't kill if it doesn't hit anything important
folsk that want to challange themselves using "X" caliber
so be it, its NOT my cup of tea
I also don't think overkill is needed either
but many folks seem to like that cup of tea as well as folks that like litle bullets or less power calibers
different strokes for different folks
me, I base what I shot on what I will be hunting, and then think about how far I Might be shooting, and make a decision based on have more than enough, and not borderline caliber/bullet
The last thing I want to be worried about when hunting is, IF a shot is there, IF I have enought gun with me!
I prefer to know, and that's KNOW its up to task,
with what gun I will be carrying can kill said target game animal ,
at any distance I feel I can make the shot
I have my own limitations on how far I will shoot things, knowing how well I shot and conditions allow!
I have never been faced with will my gun kill at "X" range if I think "X" range is in my shooting distance or not!
 
#29 ·
I have an old Army Colt that I load with light Trail Boss loads, still pokes big holes in things. Main reason I shoot the .357, reloading cost is minimal, easy to pack and handle, very little recoil.
That is not to say if a nice 45 crosses my path, I'd sure try a bring it home.
 
#32 ·
Yes the 92 is a stronger design than the Marlin 1894, but not by enough to think the Marlin can't get the job done. I owned some 92's in my time because of that very reason (strength). I went to the Marlin 1894 because it is still strong enough and because of it's superior ergonomics. It is heavier and has a superior stock design so does not punish the shooter like a 92 does. If I flinch when I shoot I don't shoot as well. I have to hit the target for it to count. If I need more power than a Marlin 1894 I go to one of the big cartridges. 92's are fine rifles but not the most fun to shoot when utilizing their full potential.
 
#34 ·
A bear is a big animal, and the bigger the bear, the more bear that has even more parts that are non vital
making the kill zone a smaller percentage of the whole critter
all kill shots have to hit a major vital, more vital the organ, the faster it goes down
brain and spine are number one spots in my book
and not so easy to hit on a charging critter Lol

But a 12 ga slug, or a 45 slug in them spots will stop a bear
as will many many other calibers
its all shot placement, and having enough power to make it to them
having more power is just added and some times a little room for erroor
but even a 50 BMG in a non vital area, won't stop a charging bear
 
#36 ·
Not sure where the no parts from Rossi comes from.
I was talking to a fellow shooter from NRA silhouette and he recently got
parts for his Rossi 92.
He said it was bunk not being able to order parts.
I haven't tried ordering parts but this guy was 100% you could order them.
 
#37 · (Edited)
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