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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since I just discovered DPMS is now part of the same "group" of gun manufactures that was responsible for the Marlin quality control fiasco, I must ask myself a question. Should I bother getting a GenII Hunter model??
Seems like the 45/70 forum members are the most savvy members on the web! That's why I posted my question here.
Mods feel free to move if you like.
 

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I would go with Rock River over DPMS or Bushmaster
 

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DPMS is a good gun that won't let you down. Like most ARs it suffers a poor trigger that is easily replaced. Accuracy should be ok at 1.5" at 100 yards with a good scope. If you have one in your sights at a good price I would get it. If you are scouting about HCS brings up rock river which is also my preference. Be sure to use a quality lube like Rand CLP or Break Free CLP. An AR is no place for rem oil or the like. As with ANY AR shoot 200 rounds thru it to function check it. If something will break it's usually within the first 200. Send it back to the factory for repair and they will make it right.
 

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I like all my dpms stuff. My 223 with a 20" fluted bull barrel is really accurate. I don't think you could get any better accuracy out of anything else it shoots 1/4 moa with match ammo. My 308 shoots really tight with my hand load. I'm thinking a Timney trigger for it will bring under 1/2 moa. I think a lot of brands are way over priced. Dpms not so much. First chance I get I'm all over the gen 2 hunter 308.
 

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My DPMS is a plain M4 version that predates Remington. It has given good service and we depend upon it. Remington is the fly in the ointment for a new one and, were I in the market for one, I would probably go elsewhere.
 

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I've had a DPMS for years with no complaints. If you want to base "quality" based upon the fact that the same investment firm that owns the company owns a number of other firearms companies - that's your loss. DPMS/Panther Arms are made in Minnesota - while Marlin levers are made in New York at the Remington Ilion plant. :shot:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm not going to shy away from "any" manufacture because they are owned by an investment group simply because. I would shy away from a manufacture that wants to consolidate their brands under the same roof to save money and quality be damned.
If the "group" would have kept the employees, tooling and quality standards that we came to know as Marlin, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.
Now that we know what the "group" is capable of doing with a fine manufactures reputation, I don't trust it. I've heard good things about DPMS and was hoping they wouldn't suffer take over pains like Marlin obviously did.
Warranties are great but I would rather not have to go through the process of using it. The GenII 308 looks simply fantastic. I mean the hunter model weighs less than most 20" AR15's. I was going to build from an 80% lower that I finished until I discovered the GenII.
 

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I've had a DPMS for years with no complaints. If you want to base "quality" based upon the fact that the same investment firm that owns the company owns a number of other firearms companies - that's your loss. DPMS/Panther Arms are made in Minnesota - while Marlin levers are made in New York at the Remington Ilion plant. :shot:
Actually being under the same parent company has a profound effect on subsidiary companies. Ultimately, for better or worse, all companies under the umbrella of the parent company take on the philosophy of management and operations that is handed down to them. It can be no other way. Distribution and upper management are always consolidated. Freedom to make key decisions is eliminated in lieu of a somewhat more cumbersome process of seeking approval, sometimes for the most mundane decisions. In other words, they aren't the same companies they were. This is not to imply that because one companies product is having issues, that another will follow suit however when the flagship of the parent company self destructs by what can be only described as "poor management", one has to wonder if the sister companies aren't far behind.
 

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Actually being under the same parent company has a profound effect on subsidiary companies. Ultimately, for better or worse, all companies under the umbrella of the parent company take on the philosophy of management and operations that is handed down to them. It can be no other way. Distribution and upper management are always consolidated. Freedom to make key decisions is eliminated in lieu of a somewhat more cumbersome process of seeking approval, sometimes for the most mundane decisions. In other words, they aren't the same companies they were. This is not to imply that because one companies product is having issues, that another will follow suit however when the flagship of the parent company self destructs by what can be only described as "poor management", one has to wonder if the sister companies aren't far behind.
But the question then is did Marlin's quality suffer from the "change in management" - or did it suffer from relocation from an old plant to a new facility with the subsequent change in staff that produces the product. Yes - Marlin had "issues" in the time after it relocated but that must in all fairness be contrasted to a situation where you had a plant that had decades to get it's machines "just right" and a workforce that had been in place for a while. Any new operation can have quality issues that can take a while to work out until you get a trained workforce and the machines right. I own "JM" Marlins and Remlins - from New Haven, Ilion, and Mayfield - and all work equally well. :flute:
 

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But the question then is did Marlin's quality suffer from the "change in management" - or did it suffer from relocation from an old plant to a new facility with the subsequent change in staff that produces the product. Yes - Marlin had "issues" in the time after it relocated but that must in all fairness be contrasted to a situation where you had a plant that had decades to get it's machines "just right" and a workforce that had been in place for a while. Any new operation can have quality issues that can take a while to work out until you get a trained workforce and the machines right. I own "JM" Marlins and Remlins - from New Haven, Ilion, and Mayfield - and all work equally well. :flute:
Well, defects in workmanship support the "new locale" explanation however sending clearly defective products out en masse is a cultural problem within management and that culture pervades everything. The self destructing flagship I was referring to is the Remington company. They've been around for a while.
 

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But the question then is did Marlin's quality suffer from the "change in management" - or did it suffer from an old plant to a new facility with the subsequent change in staff that produces the product.

I own "JM" Marlins and Remlins - from New Haven, Ilion, and Mayfield - and all work equally well. :flute:
To the first point it's not a one or the other type situation. It is clearly both of the possibilities you suggest.

Point two - How about any North Haven guns? If you have multiple Remlins from different plants that all work as well as you JMs, I think you should've also bought a lottery ticket. :flute:
 

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I have heard nothing but good things about DPMS and the fact they didn't change factories and are still being made in the same place by the same skilled workers after the Freedom Group took over I'm pretty sure their quality hasn't taken a hit and is just as good as it ever was. As redlegagent stated Marlin quality suffered because they laid off the skilled craftsman in CT and moved manufacturing to New York to workers that had very little if any experience with Marlins. AR style .308's are awesome, good luck getting you one!
 
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To the first point it's not a one or the other type situation. It is clearly both of the possibilities you suggest.

Point two - How about any North Haven guns? If you have multiple Remlins from different plants that all work as well as you JMs, I think you should've also bought a lottery ticket. :flute:
I own "JM" Marlins - ergo they are North Haven guns just as I own "Remlins" which have functioned equally well. I prefer not to waste my time lamenting over the fact that Marlin was sold and then relocated. That is a wasted effort. If you look at the history of gun manufacturing in this country you will note that over the past 200 years there has been a number of gun makers who have come and gone. No doubt that *some* lamented their loss - but that is the nature of the market. Rather than focusing your angst against "the buyer" - perhaps you should question "the seller as I doubt anyone put a gun to the management of Marlin and forced them to sell to Freedom Group. :flute:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have heard nothing but good things about DPMS and the fact they didn't change factories and are still being made in the same place by the same skilled workers after the Freedom Group took over I'm pretty sure their quality hasn't taken a hit and is just as good as it ever was. As redlegagent stated Marlin quality suffered because they laid off the skilled craftsman in CT and moved manufacturing to New York to workers that had very little if any experience with Marlins. AR style .308's are awesome, good luck getting you one!
That's what I wanted to here!
Thank you, 69Viking
 

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Don't overlook Diamondback DB-15 and DB 300. I have 3 of them. My first is a test gun with
over 13k rounds through it. This gun amazes me, I have litterally shot the heck out of it with many types
of ammo. I got it so hot during endurance testing I was able to light a cigarette off the barrel. The rifle shows
no appreciable wear. No parts have been replaced since the original build with off the shelf
parts. They come in many variations ie: Basic M-4gery, flat top with a free floated aluminum
hand guard and ATI collapsible stock, anodized or Cera-koted, hydro-dipped etc.
Yes I work there, these are the results of an off the shelf randomly built rifle.
HTH, Joe
Check them out at: diamondbackfirearms.com
 

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I own "JM" Marlins - ergo they are North Haven guns just as I own "Remlins" which have functioned equally well. I prefer not to waste my time lamenting over the fact that Marlin was sold and then relocated. That is a wasted effort. If you look at the history of gun manufacturing in this country you will note that over the past 200 years there has been a number of gun makers who have come and gone. No doubt that *some* lamented their loss - but that is the nature of the market. Rather than focusing your angst against "the buyer" - perhaps you should question "the seller as I doubt anyone put a gun to the management of Marlin and forced them to sell to Freedom Group. :flute:
If you had said North Haven I wouldn't have asked. New Haven guns are JMs, just not sure of your vintages.

While not pleased with the outcome of the sale I don't lament the fact that they've been sold to an American concern. I would and have, in this very forum, called it a win for American manufacturing. They're made in this country, even if the workforce isn't particularly adept at consistently putting out a product of merit, and that will be what I can hang on to. I say that because I had no vested interest in the deal, but for those who do/did really lost something. Lamenting is natural response to a situation like that for those in the mix. Trust me I've seen good companies go in the tank after acquisitions.

Also I have questioned, again here in this forum,if the next generation of McKennas had the heart and desire to go on with gun manufacturing. I don't know the answer, but I believe they didn't and sold. And I don't have angst toward either party. My previous response was from my experiences with JM and Remlin guns, nothing more, nothing less. The crazy thing is that in 5 years time I'm betting that not one Marlin gun will be made in the factory it's currently being made in.

I'd damn sure give DPMS a serious look over if I was to buy an AR-10 platform gun. They seem to be getting the support of the aftermarket industries, which is big. Somebody needs to consolidate the platform so it's like the AR-15 and it looks like many are betting on DPMS.
 

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I myself am a M and P 15 owner, but i have to friends that have DPMS AR'S, and as far as i have seen and heard, they run just fine with no hiccups.
 
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