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does this woman have a right to brandish a firearm?

4K views 44 replies 33 participants last post by  Mike 2010 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
does she have the right to pull a gun on these "people" ?

 
#2 · (Edited by Moderator)
I will not tip tow around you! I will not bow down to you! Why were they demanding her to apologize to her 15 year old daughter who was showing her ugliness to the pregnant women! Did she have the right to brandish gun? Didn't the two threaten them with physical harm?

Glad I wasn't there!

ca'jun56
 
#17 ·
She lost the stand your ground defense the minute she opened the window and verbally re-engaged, by Virginia law anyway. The couple were safely inside a powerful weapon, they should have driven a safe distance away to check for damage while keeping the chipotle parking lot under surveillance in case they needed police assistance with damage charges. Stand your ground law varies by locality, so know your applicable laws. Sometimes you need a little common sense.
 
#5 ·
Just from what I could hear and see on the video it looked like they were definitely looking for trouble with someone who just happened to be white, but I don't think her life was in danger at any time. Pointing a gun at someone you don't intend to kill is just generally a bad idea. They should have just got in the car and driven away. Pulling a gun, for me anyway, would only be a last resort when I could not escape certain injury or death. If the gun has to come out, it's should be firing as soon as it clears the holster, otherwise, don't pull it.
In my opinion, the lady just needed a punch in the nose for having bad manners, and raising her kid to be just as stupid as she is...but, you can't break someone's nose if your carrying a gun either, lol..
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hang on.. your disease is getting worse, America... So this all comes from someone accidentally 'bumping' someone... an acceleration to anger by the mother the the girl 'bumped'... what does someone's entitlement... calling someone 'white' isn't racist?? Abusing someone because their white? Bloody hell, you lot have got some serious issues!!! More information needed... the escalator seems to be the mother of the two girls... .

Sorry, to answer the original question... I would have thought, unless you are in danger, that pulling a gun on someone is a tad extreme... even when dealing with entitled, racist, dropkicks... (no matter their skin tone).
 
#7 ·
I believe so. The Wuestenbergs were driving away, when the back of their vehicle was “slapped” by Ms Hill. Mrs Wuestenberg then exited the vehicle, I assume to check for damage to the vehicle or pedestrian, then was accosted again. Mrs. Hill had already made verbal threats to “beat yo white a—“ to both of the Wuestenbergs. So, vehicle was potentially damaged, bodily harm was threatened, and if the vehicle HAD struck someone whilst backing up, driving away without checking would be hit and run.
 
#10 ·
Having lived in many states, I've attended many CCW classes and hold licenses in five of them. If your state doesn't require a class... take one anyway. The question you need to ask yourself before brandishing your firearm is... "Do I have to do this?" In a life or death situation, the answer will be quick and obvious. In a case like this, asking that question will save you a lot of misery.
Emotions run high at times and you may think you're justified to "assault" someone with a firearm when actually the situation doesn't legally meet the standard for your actions. You'll be breaking a state law and suffer the penalties as a result. This couple is realizing that now.
Would I have brandished my weapon in this case... obviously not. That answer is based on the training I've received over the many years as a CCW holder. Their proper course of action would to have been to just drive away or call the police.
 
#12 ·
well I will have to say I definitely would not have pulled a firearm. they were safe in there car they should have drove off or called 911 you have to be sure you are justified! I am on there side but I think they will loose this one. especially with all the entitled black folk nowadays! but I like the points "rednecknavajo" brings up. they hear a loud thump! they got out and checked to see if they had hit someone, that would be a lawful and right thing to do. then they were followed and threatened again while trying to get away.

another point I want to bring up is I have saw many videos of cops brandishing there guns at unarmed citizens for a lot less than these thugs did to these people! and cops are never charged for that so why should these people be? not picking on police officers but I do not see where they have anymore legal right to stick a gun in a persons face than a frightened civilian dose! so if I were them that would definitely be put out there. this is a perfect example why not to talk to police if arrested. remember "anything you say can and will be used against you" if you get arrested KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! you never help yourself by talking!
 
#13 ·
does she have the "right" to. Probably not. But in this heightened atmosphere we live in whenever race gets brought up bad things usually happen. The black lady kept on at them right next to the car while they were backing up. If they didn't stop maybe she would have been run over. I really have no problem with what she did.
 
#14 ·
I don't know....
The problem I have in particular with this one is the video only
shows one perspective. IOW we don't see the whole thing.
I have to assume that it was shot by the Lady who was verbally assaulting
the pregnant woman.
If so, its pretty obvious she was pretty close.

There is no question that threats were hurled and violence was threatened.
I believe i saw the black lady reach into the car at one point.

What is going to be against her is her husband went around and got her
in the car safely. They could have left at that point.
But for some reason he didn't drive away, and not only that, but she rolled
the window down, allowing the thing to continue.
Then got back out again.
I fully agree with the post about the lady slapping the car...im just not sure
if it will help her.
 
#15 ·
As a conceiled carrier I would not have pulled a firearm in this case and exited the area as quickly as possible. Clearly the agressor was the mother and her teenage daughters and their behavior was provacative and frankly the mother appears to be baiting the couple. The possibility of physical harm by the mother and her daughters or any minor property damage, in my mind, does not meet the threshold of "grave bodily harm" to the pregnant woman and her husband. Getting embroiled into the emotional rhetoric with the mother and her daughters was a mistake and resulted in two apparently average people facing a long legal battle and very possibly felony charges that will stay with them the remainder of their life.
 
#16 ·
Problem with a firearm is that it is good for one thing. Whether pulled by a police officer or civilian, it is only effective if you intend to shoot it. It makes a poor club compared to other weapons and is only good for shooting. I have seen police videos where that was the problem. They had a gun in hand and things were not really going the way they wanted so they got in trouble because now that a gun was in hand they shot it. No alternative was at hand. The old night stick in trained hands was pretty handy but probably not used as much today due to "excessive force" issues, but I have talked to some officers that were trained in them and used them as deterrents. Hard to explain exactly, but a firearm is not always a good deterrent. I decided that carrying a firearm might be more of a problem than its worth based on my past experience so I do not. I have home protection guns but do not carry in public. This is an example of why. It can be tempting to get mad and pull one out when it really is not a good idea. Once in the car they could have driven off. Or as suggested called 911.

DEP
 
#19 ·
My understanding and I could be wrong, but I swear that I read it on a website when this first happened was that the black lady's husband is a Detroit LEO. It also stated that he was on his way there when this happened. I'm looking for the article.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
The gun is not the major issue here. The attitude of these Black women is the issue. The BLM mentality that they are owed some special rights is going to get people killed. The best thing to do is not even speak to these people. If they block you call the cops if you are where they still have cops to send to 911 calls. This couple may get thrown under the bus by pandering tin horn politicians. Any court that can’t tell what happened here isnt honest. I agree that gun shouldn’t be pulled only under life threatening circumstances. When gun is pulled there should be a death. Anything short of that leave it holstered. Also this firing of people that are caught up in this racial morass needs to be stopped. Labor relations should get into this. This is what comes of letting politics and race into all aspects of everyday life. The politicians have no right under the Constitution to do Social Engineering. A citizen should be free to say what they want, think what they want and associate with who they want. This is what has gone to far and is going to blow up with Democrat party.
It’s going to set race relations back, not improve them. Along with other social engineering experiments like forcing the sex & gender perversions on the public. The public in general doesn’t care about your perversions, just don’t force them on us. All these people want special treatment, there is no provision for special treatment of anyone.
 
#23 · (Edited)
From what I have seen. I am leaning towards the Woman and the kid being more responsible with what started there. But I think the charges will be likely be dropped on the couple. If they are not. an appeal may have to be made elsewhere out of that jurisdiction. I see a possible future Lawsuit against the University too.You have no Constitutional Right to an an apology. You do have one to keep and bear a Firearm. She did not dichgarge the weapon. So what harm was done. sounds like they had the proper permits, to carry.

Woman should have just continued into the Store with Her Daughter, Incidental contact probably occurred there. Happens all the time. You can say sorry if you want. Or not say it. Sounds like a scenario where the Woman just wanted to escalate the incident. No matter what happened. Because her Child was "victimized"

You cannot just beat on someone cars to try to obtain an apology. That really makes sense.
 
#24 ·
I have a membership with CCW and they are partnered with Law Of Self Defense website and their team. I read the script of a 40 minute video describing this very altercation last night. It's a big cluster legally but a significant reality is that pulling a firearm is a HUGE deal with very specific guidelines on appropriateness. I highly recommend reading it if this really interests you as it does me. He discusses the reverse racism dynamic at length as well. These guys are top of the heap for self-defense law. USCAA can take a hike IMO. They are an insurance company and not a membership. CCW was created by ex LEO's and ex Military. The 16.00 month I pay for their coverage and expertise is some of the best money I'll ever spend.

https://lawofselfdefense.com/news-qa-show-july-2-2020/
 
#25 ·
I'd like to mention a quote from one of my favorite Sci/Fi authors, Robert Heinlein....An ARMED society is a POLITE society! YMMV
Then again, there's always that other quote from none other than Al Capone...You can get more from a kind word and a gun, than you can from a kind word alone! :adore::star:
 
#26 ·
If that gun had gone off, even accidently, that lady would be going to prison. No if's, and's, or but's. Unless there was an actual threat of bodily harm, I don't believe standing your ground would have helped you in this situation. If it were me. I would have just said lady I'm sorry and been on my way. Apologizing doesn't make you any less of a person. But it can prevent a long legal battle for everyone involved. I'm a CHL holder and typically carry my handgun, but I don't think this situation warranted pulling out a pistol, racking the slide, and pointing it at someone. And especially if that person was unarmed. Now they have been arrested and the legal nightmare begins. They had, IMHO, other options. From what I could see in the video, only the husband and wife were armed, although, not sure if the husband drew a weapon as well. Carrying a firearm is a big responsibility, and it is better to walk away from an argument/trouble, then to escalate it into something you and the other person may regret later. Regardless of how we may think we should act, or how we feel about the situation. The law sees things in a different perspective than what we do.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I would think the husband drawing his firearm is more justified than the wife... he cannot see all the interactions on the other side of the vehicle. His wife has seen something and drawn her firearm; the husband has to rely on his wife's observations, and draw his firearm to support her.

That is no different to Police. One officer see's something, draws their firearm, the other officer, who may not be precisely aware what caused the first to draw, also draws their firearm to support/protect the first officer. The decision to shoot is made by the gun carrier alone, based on what is presented to them.

The provocation is from the coloured lady, and her two offspring, who follow and continue to berate the couple (targeting the pregnant woman), and the mother of the girls who appears to hit the car, and then cry out that they drove into her. I wonder why there is no outcry about the
mother's racist attitude?

The extremely pregnant wife may lack the physical capacity to fight, allowing her to move to a firearm earlier. It also appears she is backing up, and the 'mother' is going forward, the aggressor still, by the cries of the daughter.

None of this, to my way of thinking, actually justifies the transition to a firearm, rather than departing the scene and calling Police. The wife actually asks the husband to call the Police; the aggressive mother says something about calling her husband.

I also have serious doubts about the assault by Police, in America, drawing a firearm and pointing it as someone without justification; I live in Australia, I worked as a Police Officer, including high crimes areas, and rural single officer patrols. In 16 years I could count the number of times I drew a firearm, on two hands. I could count the number of times I drew a firearm and pointed it at someone with a high probability of shooting them if they didn't comply, on one hand (a few fingers - I had to change this, because I don't like to dwell on things, but the number was actually bit higher than a few fingers, when I went back and added up - only a couple were two way shooting range type things).

The sight of a drawn firearm is a use of force, under some circumstances turning the firearm side on, so the person can clearly see what is in your hand, may be sufficient (person with a knife, some distance from you). The transition to pointing to someone is a further heightening of the use of force, and in most jurisdictions an assault.

It was preferable to have two hands available to deal with someone; I found the long baton an effective 'tool' for force multiplication (if required)... I'm not as much of a fan of the ASP baton, although its capacity to be carried and have available, is a benefit.

This matter will be settled in a court, for the people originally verbally attacked, and pursued, by the mother and her daughters... so the original aggressor may feel 'justified' that her poor behaviour, her racist behaviour, her aggressive behaviour, which she is teaching her daughters, is also OK. That could be one of the sad outcomes of this, either way.
 
#28 ·
Where the lady messed up in my opinion is when she got back out of the vehicle. until then she was good to go. My guess is she'll be charged with something like aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, a firearm. Probably have to cop a plea and become a felon. I don't know if that state allows felons to apply for restoration of civil rights after successful completion of sentence. Some states do and some sates do not. What I don't understand is why are they charging her husband with a crime. AFAIK, he didn't anything. I would love to be on the jury for for that trial. I'm a firm believer in jury nullification when appropriate.
Paul B.
 
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