Marlin Firearms Forum banner
21 - 33 of 33 Posts

·
Premium Member
S&W, Colt, Winchester
Joined
·
239 Posts
I like both of them. The newer Micro-Grove was started by Marlin with a patient in 1956. It's a good rifle.

Overall, I mostly like the post-war 1946-1956 rifles most, but they are expensive and harder to find for a hobbyist like me. It's more than the barrel rifling thing when liking the older and more rare guns: They had soul and with perfectly made rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,197 Posts
I mostly shoot cast lead in my rifles and the Ballard rifiling in my Cowboys are much easier to get cast bullet loads to shoot well.
I will say that the micro-groove rifiling in my .22s shoot tighter groups than my older '97, 39 & 39As with Ballard rifiling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gunscrewguy

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,655 Posts
Despite the consensus, I have tried every recipe in the book to get microgroove barrels to shoot a cast bullet and I still haven't been able to get them to shoot the way I want, so my answer is Ballard. It's rare I shoot j-words anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,101 Posts
What is the hardness of your bullet and what do you size them to. Also, which bullet are you using. Thirty caliber needs to be sized to .310" and in some rare occasions as large as .311" if the rifle will accept them at that size. Prime example, a popular bullet is the Lyman 31141 now called 311041 to make their computer happy. Another is 311291. I should a lot of case in 30-30, .308 Win. and 30-06. Number 31141/311041 won't shoot worth crap in any 30 caliber rifle I own. Not one! But 311291 a design for 1905 IIRC shoots like a dream. The 3112291 is a nose bore riding design where 41141 is not. If a nose bore riding bullets is a snug fit in the muzzle, you stick the nose into the muzzle, or even if it's slightly engraved by the lands when you do so, then odds are the bullet will shoot accruately in that rifled. The 311291 is snug in my one Microgroove barrell and is engraved in my other 30 caliber rifles. Groups run from 2.0" to 1.25" depending on the rifle and sights.
In short, what I look for in a cast bullet for s is a mold that casr .002" over groove diamets and a bore riding nose that is snug. I will alter my alloy to ensure I get that snug fit.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,655 Posts
What is the hardness of your bullet and what do you size them to. Also, which bullet are you using. Thirty caliber needs to be sized to .310" and in some rare occasions as large as .311" if the rifle will accept them at that size. Prime example, a popular bullet is the Lyman 31141 now called 311041 to make their computer happy. Another is 311291. I should a lot of case in 30-30, .308 Win. and 30-06. Number 31141/311041 won't shoot worth crap in any 30 caliber rifle I own. Not one! But 311291 a design for 1905 IIRC shoots like a dream. The 3112291 is a nose bore riding design where 41141 is not. If a nose bore riding bullets is a snug fit in the muzzle, you stick the nose into the muzzle, or even if it's slightly engraved by the lands when you do so, then odds are the bullet will shoot accruately in that rifled. The 311291 is snug in my one Microgroove barrell and is engraved in my other 30 caliber rifles. Groups run from 2.0" to 1.25" depending on the rifle and sights.
In short, what I look for in a cast bullet for s is a mold that casr .002" over groove diamets and a bore riding nose that is snug. I will alter my alloy to ensure I get that snug fit.
I appreciate the insight, but I shoot in a sport where we're sending cast bullets out to 500+ yards and depending on the discipline, 1000+, so I know how to cast, size, throat diameters etc... Perhaps my standards are too high but take my 336 for example, it's a sub 1" gun at 100 yards all day and the best I can do with several designs is 1-3/4-2" at 100 yards with various alloys, speeds, lubricants etc... With my ballard guns, my cast bullets shoot as well, and often times, exceed jacketed accuracy. It's simply not worth my time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
The only Micro I tried I thought was a flop, figuring I would use just some good factory jacketed ammo, and it did not shoot well. Then I realized maybe it just didn't like that load. A few tweaks improved it nicely, not great, but decent. Then a few initial trys with cast and results decent again (those were standard sized pills, not oversized). Still early. But I must admit my first impression was to blame the micro-groove.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
338 Posts
Paul B has given some excellent advice. Be aware that there are other factors involved as well.
Velocity and types of powder also play into the mix. If you're going for much over 1600fps gas
checks are usually recommended to help prevent leading. Pressure also plays a role. A low
velocity load doesn't necessarily mean low pressure, the faster the powder, think shotgun like
red dot or green dot, where pressure spikes fast. Slower rifle powders impart a longer pulse
to the projectile. Pressure and bullet hardness should be considered together.

With a slow powder and a gas check with water dropped, think hard, boolit, I've hit 2200fps
with no leading. You do need a good lube. Now there's a bunch of folks playing with powder
coating boolits and getting excellent results.

Can microgroove shoot cast? absolutely, but it is finicky compared to cut rifling of fewer
and deeper grooves. For more detail and THE forum on reloading with lead, sign up here;
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,092 Posts
Mine is micro groove and I had better accurcy with jacketed,then found a 45/70 mold with a hollow base which works real good at about 1700 FPS and slower this is more than you really need even for a dinosaur I run them at 1650.I lube them with Alex mixed with graphite,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,183 Posts
Jacketed bullets are no problem, for cast I only shoot hard cast at .002 over groove diameter and have no issues. With my T4's which are all 1-38", the faster you run them the better they do with the heavier weight cast.
So, no I don't consider it a disadvantage, you just need to know a couple of things about using cast bullets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
338 Posts
"With my T4's which are all 1-38", the faster you run them the better they do with the heavier weight cast."

My 444 and first 45-70 are both microgroove, and slow twist. Like Ray says above, run 'em oversize for bore,
and work your way up with the velocity. Both are tack drivers with the right load. IIRC the 444 was one of my early attempts at casting/loading for mcg. Starting slow the 300gr Lee hard cast was going sideways till
I hit ~ 1700fps. They started to stabilize and bingo, minute of claybird at 100yds was all of sudden ez.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Marlin (JM) m60 microgroove is the best out of the box accuracy you can get, for the money. My 30/30 micro does fine with cast or jacketed. I push them hard but size 311 with harder alloy. Did shoot some near pure GCd in it, decent accuracy. As previously stated, heavy bullets have lots of inertia to overcome at the start so ballard my be better there.
 
21 - 33 of 33 Posts
Top