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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Going off of this article
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

It mentions 27-30grs of IMR4895 yielding about 1700FPS. I'll be using a lee C312-185-1r sized to .311 with a hornady crimp on gas check, lubed with LLA. I'm going hog hunting soon and would like to use my M39 with my own cast bullets to kill a few things, but I'd like to avoid fillers. Any information y'all can give me would be great. I'm sure I could just hold the rifle in the upright position and gradually pull it up to my shoulder to get the job done.

EDIT: I think it should be said that I 100% of the time shoot 13grs of red dot under that bullet, but it's not moving fast enough for me to feel confident on a pig. I'll also be putting a meplat on these bullets.


EDIT: I also got to thinking that maybe 16-18grs of unique might get me where I want as well.
 

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I don't know that you ever "have to" use a filler.

However they can be beneficial in two areas:

Reduced velocity variations from changes in powder position
Reduced gas cutting (most relevant with a plainbase bullet)

When using H4895 in my 7-30 Waters with cast bullets of 140 grains, I found up to 200 fps velocity variation when obtaining velocities in the 18 to 1900 fps range, powder oriented normally versus near the back of the case.

That's substantial. What you want to do about it is up to you. First I'd check velocity with loads shot normally, then with position extremes. After evaluating you will have a better idea if a filler is beneficial or not, and to what degree.

I personally prefer dacron, used in quantities to fill the case from powder to bullet. Its usage with something like IMR 4895 is as classic an application for dacron as I can think of. Used properly there are no fears from ringing or anything else IME.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have no chronograph so I'm kind of shooting in the dark just going by what people have found with their rifles.

Since unique is not a position sensitive powder, how do you feel about 16-18grs in the 7.62x54r with a 180gr. cast boolit? I read of one man on castboolits shooting 16grs of unique giving him about 1600FPS. Do you think that would be good enough to kill a pig inside 75 yards with a boiler room shot?

EDIT: Hell if a 170gr. 30-30 moving 1800FPS can do it so can that cast boolit out of a 7.62x54.
 

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I'd guess that the 4895 load would show better accuracy than the maximum level Unique load you envision, but "good enough" might be had with the faster powder. After all, it's only 75 yards.

The energy level of your load using Unique will approximate a 357 out of a carbine length barrel. Unless you find pigzilla, that ought to be enough.

A flatter point is a good idea.

I'd still try the 4895 load with filler, as it has a higher velocity range with good accuracy potential than the Unique load does. Just to see where you're at and broaden your options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
See that article just lists 4895, so I assume its IMR4895. Does 27-30grs sound correct to you? What about polyfill as a filler? How should I go about using that? Say, 27grs of IMR4895 and then 1gr. of polyfill?
 

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Poly filler is intended to be used with compression to hold the filler in place. Fill to halfway up the neck, then seat the bullet, assuming it seats to the base of the neck or below. Settle the poly fill a little to make sure it's completely full, and the powder cannot shift.

Poly filler should not be used to fill more than half of the case volume. If more fill is needed use dacron.

Poly fill is most appropriate using 4895. Don't use it with Unique, but then you probably weren't intending to.
 

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If you go without the filler, I'd rather you kick it up to 30 grains or so, but 27 is safe. Reason being that you're flirting with really low pressures, a bit higher than shotgun range, but lower than 38 Spl. and 45 ACP standard loads.

While these powders work at these pressures, they're on the verge of incomplete combustion in the sense that pressures can get too low if the powder charge is all by the bullet. You will see a fair number of unburned powder granules at this level, but these loads often are quite accurate.

These loads have no worries about SEE or anything of that sort, as they are not using a slow enough powder, but you've got to help them work in this range by either:

Using dacron to position the powder by the primer so it has a little better chance at consistent ignition, or
Bump up the charge slightly and try not to let the powder bunch up near the bullet.

For example, Lyman lists 30 grains IMR 3031 (a bit faster powder than 4895) as producing only 11,000 psi with a bullet weight reasonably close to what you're using in the '06 case, which is fairly comparable to your 7.62 Russkie. That's not a lot of pressure.

I wouldn't try to rely on a load such as this in cold weather sans dacron, for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, I'll be testing this out in 80+ degree heat and humidity, and when I take the rifle hunting it will be just as hot. Thanks for all the help 35 rem. I really appreciate it. I'll load up a few at 30grs. and give them a run.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well I loaded 15 up tonight over 30grs of IMR4895... talk about a reduced load!

I recently acquired a new Mosin Nagant finnish M28. These rifles are purported to have a .308-.3095 bore, I'm shooting boolits sized to .311. I'm going to test some surplus out of it to see how it shoots, then I'm going to run some reduced cast out of it, then I'm going to shoot some of those same 30grs of IMR4895 loads to see how the run. Shouldn't hurt a thing. If the M28 shoots the hopped up cast boolit loads better than the M39 I'll be taking the M28 hog hunting, but after all that the M28 is getting wiped down, oiled up and put up. The M28 mosin nagant is an extremely rare mosin in 2011, and is a collector rifle, not a rifle you shoot all the time.

I will report back tomorrow afternoon with pictures and another paragraph. ;D
 

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Looking forward to hear what you find, Travis. I might have to try some of this in my M39, now that I'll be starting to cast pretty soon. Already have a Ranchdog .30-30 mold, that might be kind of cool in the Mosin ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
miatakix said:
Looking forward to hear what you find, Travis. I might have to try some of this in my M39, now that I'll be starting to cast pretty soon. Already have a Ranchdog .30-30 mold, that might be kind of cool in the Mosin ;D
Let me know how that turns out.

Can't wait to shoot that M28 tomorrow. I'm hoping it shoots the hopped up cast bullet load well. I've wanted to kill a hog with a rare mosin that has seen combat and has honest combat wear on it for the picture books. I may get to do it in a few weeks, but if it doesn't like the hopped up cast bullet load, reduced load, or surplus then it's not like it matters... it's still a rare M28 and the M39 will get the job done. ;D

I'm kind of taking a gamble firing cast out of this gun before slugging it. It should have a .308-.3095 bore so it's not like a cast or jacketed bullet 3 thousanths over the groove diameter will hurt anything. It will raise pressures a little but not dramatically. The real gamble is whether or not it will like the cast boolits.
 

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Will do. If it works out well I'll send you a few boolits to try out.

Indeed, that should be a pretty cool experience. Those M28s are awesome looking. I saw one, once. Be sure to post up some pics, either way, once you bust a hawg.

I'm thinking about getting a Ruskie hex to toy around with in the next month or two. I know I've told myself "no more guns" for a good long time, but a Russian Mosin-Nagant hardly counts, they're so cheap, and I already have ammo, dies, etc. ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just slugged it, it slugs out at .309. My gamble so far is turning out to be a winner! ;D


Oh yeah, those D166 bullets you sent me... this one has a throat cut for the D166, so expect me to be trying some of those out in the future. After that though I will definitely have to oil this one down and put it up. Too rare to be be playing with. lol. Maybe every 2 years, break it out and shoot some reduced cast.
 

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Very cool ;D
 

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Travis,
Hodgdons lists reduced loads, youth loads and/of low recoiling loads using H4895 at 60 % of a standard load. Use a calculator to figure it out and you should be safe!

Hip
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I shot the 30gr. load out of my M39 today. It shot ok, about an inch at 50 yards... then I ran the load out of the M28

At 50 yards it shot 5 inches high, no pressure signs, and put 5 shots into about an inch, with a few pulled. I got some minor vertical stringing but not enough to be concerned. Out of the M28 I shot a few loaded over 13grs of red dot which hit dead center bullseye, 3 shots into a clover leaf at 50 yards. This will be my hog load. ;D ;D It's moving about 1350 FPS, which with the BC of the bullet is about 1092 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Good enough.
 
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