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Discussion Starter #1
I've got a handful of 30-30 rounds that have been loaded in and out of my 30A a few times for hunting and such. I've noticed that compared to a new round these have the bullet seated a little bit farther back in the case. It's not too dramatic but enough that you can't see the little crimp marker on the bullet anymore. Is this dangerous? How far is too far back? Does this affect accuracy?

Here you can see somewhat of what I'm talking about. These are all Remington 170gr. The round on the left is fresh out of the box and the rest have been in the magazine and worked through the action before. Clearly the one on the right is the worst.


 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

The COL or "Cartridge Overall Length" will affect the CUP or the pressure on ignition. The "space" in the case can be critical if it were loaded with a high volume, slow powder where the charge could possibly be compressed. Could produce an unhappy result...If you can't pull the bullet, re-size, re-charge, re-crimp.......When in doubt, throw it out.....
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

If you have a ineria bullet puller (the hammer with an adjustable collet in the top). Put the cartridge in the collet and tap the hammer until the bullet moves back out. Using a seating die reseat it using a new cartridge as a guide as to length. Then crimp the brass a bit. Again, use a new cartridge as a guide, and when you lower the new load, turn your die in about an eight turn further.
I have had a similiar thing happen, but with ammo in the magazine of a heavy recoiling bolt action.
Without a die set, set them aside until an opportunity becomes available. The shorter bullets will have a different impact than fresh factory. Hate to think a deer would take a bad hit, or even get away due to a "short round". My 2 cents. Shenandoah
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

grizzlyblake said:
Here you can see somewhat of what I'm talking about. These are all Remington 170gr. The round on the left is fresh out of the box and the rest have been in the magazine and worked through the action before. Clearly the one on the right is the worst.
Looks to me that short one isn't crimped.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Yikes. I've trusted Remington for so long and now this. I don't reload so I have none of the proper tools to mess with these rounds. All of these rounds are factory boxed Remington Core Lokt 170 gr. They did not look this way before being run through the action once or twice. Maybe a bad batch? Should I just stick these to the side until a range day?

I guess I'll stick in 6 rounds of new Federal blue box for tomorrow morning's opening day. At short iron sight range both rounds group very similarly in 170gr.

I'm just somewhat shocked that a factory load would be this susceptible to getting messed up by simple, normal use.
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

These rounds have obviously not been crimped properly at the factory, you might want to call Remington and explain the problem. No canelured bullet should push back like that with a proper crimp.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Interesting. I may give Remington a call next week. These rounds are the remainder of a box after range time. I just loaded them into the magazine tube after the trip and have since cycled them through once, maybe twice. I've shot untold numbers of rounds through this gun so I was somewhat shocked to see these guys pop out. I've never had this problem before.
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

.

I would return them to the dealer for refund or replacement. THAT is defective ammo.

.
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Hey there grizzlyblake -- Here is something to consider. "...Ammunition durability, from a noted Armorer: "Duty pistol ammunition, where bullets get pushed back into cases after repeated feeding, is a common problem, and there is no real solution, except to shoot regularly! After many discussions with ATK, Winchester, Cor-Bon, and other large manufacturers of small-arms ammunition, all agree that most small-arms ammunition is intended to be cycled only two times! That includes handgun and rifle ammunition. After two cycles, expect the bullet to start pushing back. We must all thus be a diligent and insure our carry ammunition gets inspected and 'rotated' (ie: fired) regularly. The alternative is facing the distinct possibility of a failure to feed when we really need to shoot someone! Repeatedly cycling (unloading and reloading, without firing) the same round of ammunition is a recipe for disaster. Be warned!...". I lifted this from a respected source. Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Thanks for the help guys. I switched out for some Federal blue box 170s this morning and one did just right on a little button buck that I thought was a doe.

I keep so much ammo around that I'm not sure where this batch of Remington came from so returning it probably isn't feasible. Should I just bury these bad cartridges or something? What's the best way to dispose of them?
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

I have seen this through the years, and all the advice so far is good, throw out the really short ones. None will blow up on you, but your zero will be off because of the changed velocity from the higher pressure.
You now can spend money on another box of fresh ammo, or get the right tools for the future. Now, to "get the right tools", just get you a Lee Classic Reloading Kit, the kind that costs around $20 or so. Read the instructions ( I know it's tough for a guy to do this, but really, read the instructions :) Place all your future factory ammo in the base, and "tap" the crimping tool on each one, making a stronger crimp. You are all set, no more set back, and even after the noses are boogered up from loading/unloading, it won't affect accuracy, as the nose shape/condition has almost nothing to do with accuracy anyhow.
After season, learn how to use your nifty new Lee classic Loader and enjoy the all the benefits of rolling your own! Good luck pardner!
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

I'd shoot the very short ones and not rely on them from hunting. Don't load them in the magazine again as some rifles will double feed if the round's overall length substantially differs from the standard.

Since 30-30 powders reach their maximum pressures with the bullet out of the case, the freebore effect from a deeply seated bullet would probably cancel out any reduction in combustion space. Freebore effect is the longer jump to the rifling from the deeply seated bullet.

With a pistol round and fast burning powder, a deeply seated bullet is a concern. With rifle ammo and powders in the 3031 range, including factory powders, not so much.
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Rather than just "Throwing" them out ( I don't believe that was actually mentioned considering it is still LIVE ammo) why not ask around and see if you have someone local that reloads, have them use the bullet puller to bring the bullet out far enough to re-seat and re-crimp the rounds? Just my 0.02 worth Mr fixit
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Any reason no one has recommended an inertia puller to carefully pull the bullet back to the right position? I do that with rounds I get seated too deeply. If necessary I then reset to the exact depth I want and crimp, but I can usually tap them back out to the desired location pretty precisely and they then don't move without a good deal of force (like in the press).
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Since You don't hand load and you don't want to fire those defected rounds. Use a pliers put out the bullet and empty the powder in a ashtray then burn it. Put the empty primed case into the chamber and fire the primer done. Now no one can be hurt from this defected cartridge.
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

I'll take them if you are looking for a good home for them.

What I'd do is pull the bullets, and weigh the powder charge. I'd keep all the powder and bullets, resize the brass, recharge the cases with the original powder charge, reseat the bullet and crimp it with my Lee Factory Crimp Die. Would take me maybe 5 minutes and I'd be good to go.

PM me if you are interested in this disposition.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Good grief. Maybe I'm thinking it's my rifle's problem. I set those setback Remingtons aside and carried Federal blue box 170s to deer hunt this weekend. I stuck 3 in the mag tube and 1 in the chamber. I manually inserted the chambered round so it wouldn't be cycled through the action.

Now I see that the cartridges that were in the magazine are starting to do the same thing with the bullet setting back in the case. It's not that drastic, but enough that the crimp markers are nearly covered up.

Is my magazine spring too strong or am I just unlucky with ammo lately? The spring is original from 1989 as is the rest of the gun.
 

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Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

You may try to clip a curl or so from the spring to lessen the tension; it may work or it may ruin it. They are easy to replace if it goes south on you. It doesn't take a whole lot of tension in order for everything to work.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Bullets seating farther in case from sitting in magazine

Well, I decided to check into the rest of my Remington ammunition to see if there were any other factory issues. I had 9 other boxes that most were still sealed from the factory. I am VERY unimpressed with the QC to say the least.

The lot # for the cartridges posted in the original post is "J02" I believe. That number is stamped (embossed) into the inside flap of the box.

I had a couple other boxes with that lot number and here is what I found:

*** You can right-click on the photo and click "view photo" or "open in new window" and see it full size ***

This one was half empty so I may have loaded these in the tube one time previously. J02:


This was a brand new sealed box. Inconsistent setbacks. J02:


This was a brand new sealed box. DIFFERENT LOT "H24." You can see weird crimp marks on the brass on a couple and still inconsistent setback. H24.



Another sealed box. Weird crimps and setbacks. ANOTHER DIFFERENT LOT: K13:


I opened 2 other sealed boxes of Lot H24 and they looked like the others with the weird crimps and setbacks.

Here is what that last sealed box looked like. Lot H17:




Is this sort of inconsistency commonplace with Remington? I guess I've just never really paid that much attention before, which is bad to say, but I don't recall seeing any other type of ammunition with this sort of oddball thing going on. If this is normal I'm probably finished with Remington ammunition, although it's a shame that I've got about $175 worth of this stuff here.


Just for a sanity check I went and handled every single other 30-30 cartridge in my box, all 280 rounds, Winchester and Federal. Only one single slightly "off" setback on one cartridge in a box of Federal red box, which is like $9/box at WalMart - I think it's their "house" packaging.

Do I have any course of action here? Should I contact Remington or something? I know I won't be buying ANY MORE Remington ammunition and I hope there is a way for me to get rid of this and recoup my cost.

For those who have a good stock of Remington Core Lokt ammunition, please check it over thoroughly before shooting.
 
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