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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would appreciate some suggestions for a gas checked cast bullet in the 300-350 grain range for deer sized critters. I have a large amount of Lyman #2 just sitting around.
Also, what do you size the bullets at?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good question, 45-70. Forgot to pull this in my first post
 

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I don't have any 45-70 experience. I can vouch for 240 gr sized to .432 over 20 gr of 2400. 44 Mag. Deer don't move far after a whack from that.
 

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Snowwolfe, IMO you made an excellent choice using the Lyman #2 alloy for deer hunting. I don't hunt with the 45-70, but this is the alloy I use in my 357Mag, 41Mag, 44Mag and 45 Colt for hunting deer. I 'am anxious to see what bullet molds are suggested for you to use because I may try hunting deer with my old Springfield Trap Door 45-70 out behind the house ( It's too dang heavy and awkward to carry around all day up and down the mountain.)

Jack
 
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Size them at 460. With those limitations, I would choose the Ranch Dog 350 made now by Noe moulds. 2nd choice would be the RCBS 300 gr. I like the 405 gr. in various offerings. NOE makes these too.

I would cut the Lyman 2 cut by 1/2 lead for a better hunting alloy
 

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I go .002 over groove diameter. .460 is a good guess, but it depends on the rifle.

I also have lost accuracy on bullets that light. It depends on the twist of your rifle and how hard you throw them. You might want to try a few before you make a significant investment.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Perhaps 300 is to light, I'll look for something in the 350-405 grain range.

Where are you guys finding a .460 lube sizing die?

Also, what are your bullets measuring out of the mold?
 

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I have a custom Saeco sizer as well as what I use the most. A Lee. I shoot 6 45-70's, and actually slugged 3 of them. 3 are Marlins, and all shoot .460 sizing. Perhaps the Rossi has a smaller chamber. I have had good accuracy with virtually all bullets that get fit. I really enjoy the 405's, as they are the most consistently accurate for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dr A,
Thanks for the information. Having to size the bullets to .460 leaves me to believe they are coming out of the mold really oversized. Is your mold off the shelf or did you have it cut to produce bullets larger than .460? What do they measure before they are resized?
 

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Sometimes the mold size is luck of the draw. Even expensive molds can be on the tight side but not as often as the cheaper ones. I have a Lee 340-457 that drops them about .4595. They barely get touched by my .460 sizer.

The Lee 405-459HB is highly regarded by some here. Most I know of are using them in slower loads but it does drop big enough to fit a micro-groove barrel too. Lapping a slightly small mold can do wonders. Just go slow.

Fitting the lead bullet to the bore and the lead to the pressure you expect to build behind it is way more important than the bullet weight. Especially for deer. Almost anything that won't melt in the barrel on the way out and spins straight will drop a deer if you can put it where you are aiming. A 150gr .309 bullet at 1750fps will drop a deer. Surely a bullet going slower but two to three times the weight will do the same thing.
 
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My smallest mold was made by Mountain Molds. All others, (including a Lyman), throw .461 or .462. None any less. I've been lucky, but most are made to throw bigger than the old 457 that Lyman indicates, (and seems to still indicate), is appropriate.
 

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I hunt deer with a 45-70 that is loaded with 405 grain paper patch round nose lead bullet over 50 grains of reloader #7. The bullet is sized to .458 with the paper patch on the bullet and I do the same for just plain lead bullets too. I use a piece of picture matt board cooked in bees wax as a gas check. This set up gives very consistent results at 100 yards. The bullets run at 1980 fps. That is shot out of a 22 inch barrel of a Ruger no.1. The paper patching does an excellent job of stopping bore from leading up. This load will easily go through both shoulders, the heart and the 12 inch oak behind the deer. They usually fall where they stand. I'm currently working on loads for a 325 grain lead round nose bullet. Happy hunting.
 

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Would appreciate some suggestions for a gas checked cast bullet in the 300-350 grain range for deer sized critters. I have a large amount of Lyman #2 just sitting around.
Also, what do you size the bullets at?
You didn't mention the type of rifle you have but from a previous post it looks like its a late model Win 1886 EL? I have slugged a couple of Miroku made 45/70 barrels, one was a Browning 1886 and the other was a Win 1886 EL. Even though production was 10+ years apart, they were identical at 0.457. Most of the posters will probably be assuming you are using a Marlin and these are usually larger, eg mine measures .4585. The Miroku bbls also have deeper rifling compared to Marlins.

Generally, you don't add too much pressure by using a wider diameter cast pill and I find accuracy is better when either the cartridge and/or bullet are a tight fit in the chamber or throat. If you have increased the throat length, then using a large diameter pill will aid in centralizing the round in the chamber.

Plenty of good designs out there but the Saeco 350 gr mould is a pretty good place to start, however I would start by measuring what your chamber and throat can handle and go from there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes, the rifle is a 1886 EL, sort of the reason I posted this thread in the Winchester section:) So I am hoping everyone who responds is referencing their experiences with the 1886. The chamber and throat can handle most anything as the very first thing I did was to have a gunsmith cut the throat .200 longer.
 

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Stop shootin them girlie boolits and step up to a Rench Dog 425 FNGC, made by NOE
It not only knocks them down, they dont wibble or wobble, they just fall down
 

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Yes, the rifle is a 1886 EL, sort of the reason I posted this thread in the Winchester section:) So I am hoping everyone who responds is referencing their experiences with the 1886. The chamber and throat can handle most anything as the very first thing I did was to have a gunsmith cut the throat .200 longer.
I have a Winchester 86 Carbine, I get really good results with the RCBS 405 gc mould. They drop out at .458 and weigh 420 grains with the lube and gas check on.
Accuracy is superb, the velocity I get from the 20 inch barrel is 1640 fps with 40 grains of IMR 4198. I crimp them to the top crimp groove and they function perfectly out of the 86 and the 95 45-70's.
405 seems to be the magic weight in the 45-70 for me, I have about 1000 cast up and aging nicely near the loading bench.
 
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I've killed 3 with cast lead bullets. One buck I shot with 45/70 405g loaded about 1400 fps with smokeless from an original Winchester high wall. The hit was low in lungs. It just stood there so I used a second shot - probably unnecessary. The doe I shot with 45/70 405 gr cast over full case of black powder from a trapdoor Springfield. It was in a group of seven does. It was a good lung shot and it just flinched like it was bit by a horse fly. The does milled around and decided something was wrong and turned back on their path. I found the doe about 50 yards down the trail. Then another season I was hunting with a 1868 trapdoor Springfield in 50/70. The load was 450g cast black powder. I'd just set down on stand when a couple of fawns stood up out of beds about 40 yards. I could see the big slug going towards the deer and hit it like a sledge hammer blow. It went about 50 yards.

Well placed shots punch a hole through and through and you can eat right up to the hole!
 

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I have used a Lyman 457193 for years in every 45-70 I've had. even in a H&R shikari shot them well. play with your alloy and you will get different weights and size. I have 4 boxes of 500 each that I have cast over the years. each is sorted by weight. the more tin the lighter the cast but it seems the diameter increases. go figure. from that one mold I have cast .460, .459, .458, and .457. I used them to dial in a new scope on my GG . seem to work. each hole is a new adjustment.
the 460's I run through a .459 lube/sizer. the others I use liquid alox and load as cast. Shooting sport Recreation Sport venue Circle Shooting
 
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