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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, last time I'm going to bother folks with this. My set up.
Dillon press.
Redding dies
Remington 405gr. JSN
45-70
Station 1 sizing
Station 2 powder funnel
Station 3 seated no crimp
Station 4 taper die no seating stem
I ran some 350 Dardas no issues when I moved to the bigger 405 jacketed bullets I can't get a crimp. I can push the bullet into the case with one hand. If I turn the die down, then I can't put the ram up all the way. The die will prevent it. Lee crimp die does the same thing. I don't get it.
 

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Big Mike,

I can't answer your question, but it is very similar to one I experienced late last year.

Using a Hornady progressive, I simply could not get a set of dies properly adjusted.

Not my first rodeo, I had several other sets of dies set up and operating on this press and have been setting up and using three dies sets for handguns and doing so successfully for many years.

Finally the friend who's dies these were, sent the dies back to RCBS. I wish that I had done so, as clearly the explanation was not what was needed as the area the service man addressed was not and never had been the problem.

Anyway the dies came back and I began to again set them up with again zero positive results.

I started to write a letter RCBS, that clearly and completely outlined the problem, but before sending the dies off a second time I decided to attempt setting the dies up on my single stage press, just with the thought of preventing the possibility of ending up with egg on my face.

That attempt went quickly and correctly with ZERO issues or problems, using the same methods and steps that I have always used and the same as had been used on previous successful die set up for the progressive that simply did not work with this set of dies, on the progressive press.

I had questioned the purchase of the progressive for a long time and this was the straw that broke the camels back. I sold it!

Now, I'm not suggesting that you sell your progressive, But I spent a lot of time adjusting and readjusting that die set, before and after it's return to RCBS, and never could I find the answer.

I can't explain why, but there can sometimes be issues with a progressive that simply are not present with a single stage.

Good luck, hope you find a solution!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah,I hear ya. I've loaded thousands of pistol rounds with no issues
I also load .223 and .308. It's something about these dies and the shell plate
I've asked on. Here. Before about a single stage. For this caliber. I may go that rout. As. Far as my progressive, I love. It for the handgun. Stuff.
 

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Don't give up yet. From the way it reads up are seating to deep. I will step mine up this week and see what happens and post the results.
 

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Big Mike - please forgive what may be a stupid question, but how are you setting up the taper crimp station? I assume it's a 450 or 550.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Not stupid and don't apologize I'm the rookie here. It's a 550. The crimp is a Redding taper in station.4 with the seating stem removed. It. Works great with the. Dardas 350 lead
 

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Off top of my head. Are these Hornady cases that may have had the FTX bullets in'em? If so, then the brass is shorter than regular to allow for those pointy noises.
 

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I'm watching this thread hoping you get it figured out as I have the exact same set up, just waiting on a shell plate and expander so I can get started. I have a Hornady single stage to fall back on but I would really prefer to use the progressive. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm thinking the plate is the issue. Seriously thinking. Of pulling the trigger on a rock chucker. I'm thinking it would have more stroke on a. on a large cartridge like this.
 

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If you can't get a crimp, then just get a Lee Factory Crimp die, and you'll be good to go. I don't know why you aren't getting one, but I know how to get you a crimp if you want it!!
 

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"The crimp is a Redding taper in station.4 with the seating stem removed. "
--Big Mike


The above struck me after re-reading this thread.

I wonder if it is the die, as I looked on the Redding web site and found a taper crimp especially made for the shorter Hornady FTX .45-70 cases. Viz:

“Redding Reloading Equipment will begin producing a special new Profile Crimp Die for use with the Hornady Lever Revolution/FTX .45-70 Ammunition. These cases are specified to be approximately 1/16th of an inch shorter than the minimum SAAMI Standard to which virtually all die sets are manufactured. This variance from the standard case length has made it difficult for the handloader to crimp his or her bullets. This is because the location of the traditional .45-70 die’s crimp ring is approximately 0.065” too deep into the die to contact the mouth of this specialized brass.”

See below --
http://redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/167-profile-crimp-die-for-45-70-ftx-cases

Is this the die that you have, Die/Part # 86262? Is the Lee die made to set up for the shorter cases too??

A further search of the Redding on-line catalogue shows that for Series B Dies Sets for Straight Wall cases”, no taper crimp die is shown for the .45-70 . See:
[URL]http://redding-reloading.com/online-catalog/22-rifle-a-handgun-die-sets-series-b

[/URL]Also, I could not find any reference to a Redding taper crimp die with a seating stem. Is this something new or another die company. I have Redding, RCBS, Lyman, and CH-4D taper crimp dies and none have a bullet seating stem. These dies apply a taper crimp after the bullet is seated and no crimp was/is applied by the bullet seating die.
 

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Reverse the procedure and tell us the results. First, run the shellplate with the round in place fully to its up position with the die absent. Then, screw the die down over it. Tell us what happens. Measure the case mouth before and after and see if any diameter reduction is accomplished with the taper crimp portion of the die.

Is there some reason you wish to forgo the superior roll crimp?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The set is Redding 3 die s series. Comes with sizing die, roll crimp seating die. Taper crimp seating die. They are a seat and crimp in one operation. I tried the Lee crimp. Die it bottomed out on the plate. Someone suggested removing the seating stem from the unused taper die and using that. Worked great for the shorter lead bullets, can't get set for the longer heavier jacketed ones. Update: I adjusted the crimp die a couple more times. And pushed the lever down a little harder. It seems to have corrected the problem. I realize 99% of this is user error but I'm dreading changing over bullets again.
 

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Adjusting a taper crimp die to taper crimp properly is straightforward. As in very.

Remove the die from the press. Run the shellholder with the case present all the way to the top. Screw the die down until you can't screw it down anymore over the cartridge. Back the ram off, screw the die down slightly more, run the cartridge into the die to the press ram's stop. Remove the cartridge and test for proper crimp diameter by measuring with calipers.

It is especially not a good idea to taper crimp and seat lead bullets in the same operation as the case mouth is being squeezed shut while the bullet is being seated, which shaves lead. Seat with one die backed off not to crimp. Crimp with the other die in a separate step. This may apply to jacketed as well. Roll crimping may work in a single step if the leade to the crimp groove on the bullet is generously tapered or the crimp groove on the bullet is wide. If not, bullet seating and roll crimping may be best accomplished in separate operations as well.

That is all it takes.

The Lee crimp die, if of the collet type, is supposed to bottom out on the shellplate as the collet relies on firm contact to close the collet.

Changing bullets is not that big a deal, as seating depth is adjusted in the die that is not crimping if you do it in separate steps. If you're dreading changing bullets........something about the process in not quite right in terms of setup. It is, really, an easy process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Great explanation! Only when you change from a smaller to bigger bullet or vice versa won't that change the crimp line? Or not, because it is a taper?
 

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The seating die takes care of the proper depth to seat the bullet. The second, separate die that crimps will crimp the same amount regardless of bullet size or cannelure width. It is up to you to position the bullet's cannelure in the right location with the first, non crimping seating die.

Now, if the crimp groove is notably deeper from one bullet to the next more or less crimp may need to be applied. But this way of doing it in two dies separates the operation into two discrete steps that may be fine tuned. In my four station die turrets for my semi progressive Lee press I seat and crimp in separate steps. I make a slight adjustment, say, for different wadcutters in my 38 Special dies, for instandce, and continue to load away. It is, at most, a minute's worth of time to fine tune for another bullet. Often the crimp portion requires no adjustment, but if it does it is easily made.

When tuning for crimp for different bullets run one and just one cartridge through the process and do not fill every cartridge hole on the shellplate. Once you get the seating right the same single cartridge is used to adjust the crimp.
 

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BigMike: any update on your quest to find the "Taper Crimp"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thought I posted, sorry. I readjusted the crimp die and found if I put more pressure on the handle I get a good crimp that holds. Still don't know why it changed in the first. Place. Everybody was a great help. We'll see what happens next time I adjust the seating depth.
 
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