bullets a "little" long

1432 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Mr Fixit, Mar 14, 2011

jayghmi

Discussion Starter · Feb 19, 2011

bullets a "little" long

So I made a box of 30-30 bullets that don't cycle that well, even though they under specs they are a little longer than my gun likes. The bullets were crimped with a lee factory crimp die. Can I go back and seat the bullet just a little lower even though they are already crimped. I assume it should be no problem, but wanted to make sure.

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Mr Fixit

· #2 · Feb 19, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

I think that your problem lies with the shoulder of the case not being set back enough and not with the bullet. If you can pull one of the bullets out, save the powder for reuse in that case, try and chamber the case, if you notice resistance, resize the case. This sounds like issues I've had and the above was the cure, since then I try my resized cases before reloading them up 'cause I hate doing things twice......well maybe there are a few things I would do twice.

Mr fixit

1 big hole

· #3 · Feb 19, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

If you try to "set" the bullets deeper after they've been crimped, (even a slight crip) the case will buckle and be useless. as posted above, pull a bullet, and try to chamber just the case, you'll probably find that the sizeing die needs to be readjusted to set the shoulder back a-bit.

jayghmi

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 20, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Thank you for the responses. I am not sure about the shoulder - I go through the whole process of trimming and resizing prior to seating the bullet. To be more specific the issue that I was having was that it took an extra pull to completely snug up the lever before firing. I had one shot that did not fire because the lever was not fully engaged with the stock. I trust my neophyte explanation makes since. I can still shoot the bullets I just can't chamber them effortlessly. The set of bullets I was using were definitely a "little" longer than my previous reloads.

I am using lee dies. When I re-size I push it through the die once and have wondered if you should push it through more than once.

any more thought are appreciated.

PS> I am glad I did not just throw them back unto the vise.

janott

· #5 · Feb 20, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

If the bullet does need to be seated more they do not have to be removed completely. If you put one in a bullet puller and tap it out just a little to remove the crimp then it can be re seated to desired length, but if the problem is in the shoulder then there is other problems. If these cases were fired in your rifle then this should not be an issue unless the inside neck expander is a little large and this can also be an issue as it pulls on the neck of the case when removed during sizing.
If you take a wooden match and light it and get the tip of your bullet black with soot then when you try to chamber it if it's getting in to the rifling then the marks on the bullet will tell you.

jayghmi

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 20, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

after posting and then thinking. It has to be length because my other reloads work fine. They work well enough that I think I will just shoot them and reload again.

Reloading is so cool....it makes me go to the range just so I can reuse my brass!

pymi

· #7 · Feb 20, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Check a couple reloads and make sure the bullet is not being forced into the lands causing hard chambering.
Also make sure your sizing die is set properly, raise your ram and screw the die in till it touches then back off the ram and screw the die in a little more.

jayghmi

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 21, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

pymi said:
Check a couple reloads and make sure the bullet is not being forced into the lands causing hard chambering.

I am not sure what this means?

I am using lee dies and I do have it set so that it moves as far into the die as it can go. Is one pass up enough?

Cascade Jinx

· #9 · Feb 21, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

jayghmi said:
I am not sure what this means?

I am using lee dies and I do have it set so that it moves as far into the die as it can go. Is one pass up enough?

I believe what he wants you to do is to try cycling in a couple of your reloads after smoking up the brass with a match or candle. Then look to see if there are indications in the brass that the brass is engaging (entering) the rifling and lands grooves. If so, then the casing may need to be resized (shoulder needs to be set back a little); rather than just seating the bullets deeper to correct your problem.

Nobody at this point believes it is a crimp die issue. The number of times that you have to cycle the press lever should only be one time. How much of a crimp is determined by how far the die is screwed into the press. Once that die is set, repeated cycles of the press arm should not change the location of the crimp or increase the crimp. It would just keep crimping it the same (unless you readjust it).

CJ

Halwg

· #10 · Feb 21, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Are you talking about using bullets that are too long, or are you talking about the cartridge OAL being too long? If you are using bullets designed for the 30-30 cartridge, they will have a cannelure for crimping. If the brass is trimmed correctly then crimping them in the cannelure will result in a cartridge OAL that will cycle through your gun.

If you are using bullets designed for another 30 caliber cartridge, then you are going to have problems.

I suspect that you are bulging or buckling the case mouth when you are crimping and that is the reason they won't chamber. Back off the crimping portion of your sizing die, or get a Lee Factory Crimp Die and just set the seating die to seat not to crimp. Then you won't buckle cases and chambering will be smooth.

Mr Fixit

· #11 · Feb 21, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Here's a link to the reloading stickys, It may be of use . Mr fixit
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,51252.0.html

308/338

· #12 · Feb 21, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Okay I use Lee dies too. Can I ask you this. I'm assuming you full size the cases before you trim them. Are you trimming the case length to 2.039". Did you mention the projectile that you're using.

I don't think it's the case neck do to a oversize neck expander in the full size die. If the neck expander is oversize the .308" bullet would fall into the case.

If not trimmed and the case is longer than 2.039" the case would jam into the throat of the chamber.

The brand of projectile may be a factor if you are using a .308" bullet not designed for a 30 30 the cannelure maybe in the wrong spot.

If using a bullet designed for a 30 30 and the case is not trimmed within it's working length not only will the case jam in the throat but the bullet could jam into the lands of the rifling as well.

Personally I would pull these round I wouldn't fire them because of the greater pressure it would cause.

This is how I would try to solve this problem.
Adjust the full size die by raising the press ramrod to top with the shell holder .
Screw in the FL. die until it touches the shell holder and all loose play is eliminated.
FL size 10 cases, trim to 2.039" or 2.030"
chamber the cases if all okay.

{Then make three dummies rounds}

Seat the bullet to the C.O.A.L. don't crimp.

Chamber the dummy rounds and if they chambers crimp them.

If they don't seat the bullets deeper.

You might want to insert fired primer in the dummies and put the three dummy rounds in the mag. to see if they cycle okay.

As far as the neck expander being oversize take it out of the die and measure it. It should measure .307" to .3075"

TO NY

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jayghmi

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 22, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Great posts. I do trim with the lee case trimmer after sizing. This would have been the third reload for this brass and it seems the trimmer never really takes much off. The two bullets from this set did shoot, the only issue I had was that it took a little extra umph to close the lever againt the stock to free the trigger.

So I of course stopped shooting them. They measured at 2.055 which is right on spec, but bigger than all my other reloads. The reason for the length was that I did not seat the bullets as far down for some reason. I may go remeasure tonight and see if some were maybe slightly longer than 2.055.

I did measure the brass that I just resized and trimmed from the other rounds I shot and they seem to be fine according to the lee and lyman manual.

I am using sierra 150 grain .308 diameter bullets. I really believe I made them a little long for what my gun likes.

I guess its time to go buy that bullet puller!

Halwg

· #14 · Feb 22, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Are you not seating them in the cannelure?

Fomdiddle

· #15 · Feb 23, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

I had the same problem with having to do the extra "squeeze" before my reloads would fire and it turned out to be my press was mounted such that the handle linkage hit the side board of my reloading bench before the press "cammed over". I gouged out enough of the sideboard to allow the press to cam over and it solved the problem. Fom

m.wun

· #16 · Feb 23, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Sometimes a primer thats not seated all the way can cause the problem.

Mr Fixit

· #17 · Feb 26, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

jayghmi, How did things work out? Did you get the problem figured out yet? I for one would like to know and any info you provide is always usable for the next new guy. These kind of problems being fixed help everyone. Mr fixit

Mr Fixit

· #18 · Mar 14, 2011

Re: bullets a "little" long

Doesn't it worry anyone that a fella comes here gets a few answers and then goes away? I was re -reading this thread and unless I missed it somewhere ...which one of 6 different .308 bullets is the guy using?? I've got the 2010 Serra catalog and they show 6 different bullets in 150 gr. .308. 2 of those are the 150gr, FN Pro-Hunter #2000 POWER JACKET and the 150gr.RN Pro-Hunter #2135. the other 4 are more suitable for the 30.06 crowd. Just baffles me, maybe he ........?? Mr fixit

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