Bullet stringing question-336SS

4098 Views 22 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Gaterskiner, Feb 25, 2011

GJinNY

Discussion Starter · Feb 18, 2011

I have noticed as my barrel warms up, I don't get consistency in the grouping.

Could it be the barrel band is too snug? Or the front stock?

Bench rest, scoped, 100 yds 45 degrees

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1 - 20 of 23 Posts

jbadams66

· #2 · Feb 19, 2011

Thats a big difference between the first and second shot, wouldnt think that it would string that bad that quickly but I guess it can. How long are you waiting between each shot?

My rifle will string them out like that but it will get higher point of impact instead of lower. Usually starts on the third shot. Wish I had some words of wisdom on how to fix it.

bd55036

· #3 · Feb 19, 2011

Now please dont quote me as I am hesitant to post this, but if they are stringing down like that is is the barrel bands affecting it more than the stock.
Like I said dont quote me until someone more knowledgeable backs it up, or your own research does. I just am fairly confident thats what I remember reading.

rosco547

· #4 · Feb 20, 2011

The same thing happens in my 95 cowboy. Single loaded it shoots poa,but with shells in the tube I get the exact stringing?

Eli Chaps

· #5 · Feb 20, 2011

I'll toss in my .02 here and say that I don't know if you actually have a stringing scenario yet. Have you established consistent three shot groups with it before? Even if it means cooling down between the shots?

The target you presented could be indicative of a number things. And please don't think this wrong, being more generic here than anything, there is not enough about that target and the information provided to know it isn't shooter induced. Again, talking in the general sense.

A hot barrel usually strings the rounds up but not always.

GJinNY

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 20, 2011

I'll do another this Thursday at the 100 yd range. Target picture too.
Again, I was on a bench with rests and scoped.

Golfbuddy45

· #7 · Feb 20, 2011

So, IN GENERAL, how long would you wait between shots during a bench test. I am not a hunter, only target shooter, mostly at indoor county training range at up to 100 meters.

Also how much variation would I see between my four Marlin calibers due to heat - I only shoot factory loads - mostly Hornady and ALL are stainless steel if that makes a difference?

336SS .30-30
1894CSS .357
1894SS .44 Magnum
1895GS - .45-70.

GB45

Redbearcat7

· #8 · Feb 20, 2011

My couple of cents:

I was having a problem of two shots being relatively close together while I was attempting to sight in my 336 in 35Rem. Then the next three going what seemed like where they wanted to go. I shot slowly, 5 min. between rounds, still no change and the same effect. I would get a couple close, then a 4 inch spread.

I thought this being a scoped gun that I had a bad scope. It was not until I switched brands of ammo did, in my amateur status, realize it was my rifle selecting the best ammo it needed to make accurate shots.

Even with a warm barrel, as soon as I switched the group came together and stayed together. So much so that I could tell when it was my error that made a shot go bad.

Maybe I was just lucky enough to have the correct ammo with me, but having more than one brand along was derived by reading all the info provided by MO for which I am thankful.

GJinNY

Discussion Starter · #9 · Feb 20, 2011

I was only waiting 20-30 seconds between shots. I know I should wait longer.
I am curious about the barrel warming and not being allowed to expand because of the barrel band or the fore-end stock.

It sounds like the groups would tend to rise as the barrel warms?

Eli Chaps

· #10 · Feb 21, 2011

GJinNY said:
I'll do another this Thursday at the 100 yd range. Target picture too.
Again, I was on a bench with rests and scoped.

The first thing I do when I suspect an accuracy issue is pull back the yardage. Try shooting at 50yrds or even 25 if necessary.

The next is to eliminate the external factors starting with the shooter (me), the setup, and the ammo.

30-60sec's between shots should be plenty on a cold barrel to shoot your first group.

trapper-xx

· #11 · Feb 21, 2011

I had a stringing problem with three bolt guns I use for varmit and preditor
shooting. They were extremely accurate in the field. But, when shooting targets
from a bench rest, shooting one round after the other and getting the barrel hot
the stringing would start. The calibers are 17HMR, 22-250, and .223. All with free floating barrels.

The solution was to have the barreled actions cryogenically treated. The cost then was $65.00 plus postage each. This relieves all stress in the barrel which causes
the barrel to change when heated. Stress in the barrel is generally caused by the lathe turning part of barrel making. Especially if turned to agressively.

It really worked well in all three rifles. Another plus is that it makes the barrels much easier to clean by changing the molecular structure of the steel.

You can google the info. about this process. Just be sure it's the two step process of freezing and then heating. Some companies do the freezing only, but that is not the full and complete process. If frozen only, all is for naught!

I have'nt had any stringing problems with my levers, but rarely do I get the barrels hot.

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Delbert

· #12 · Feb 21, 2011

By chance, how old/brand is the scope? It may be a internal elevation problem that isn't holding POI with the recoil. But, before doing anything as of yet, I would take the rifle out again and do a 3-shot test with it just to be sure. Also have these bullets been giving you accuracy before this? All stringing I've had, the bullets went up, due to barrel heat. I also only use factory ammo, and with a lot of stringing or just plain all over paper, I've had to change ammo brands OR bullet weight to find the bullet my rifles liked best. Also with bullet testing, I clean out barrel after each firing and let it cool down. It cuts down on leading(if it's an issue), and you know the bore is clean, so it rules out one possibility of a bad shot.
Del

papabear

· #13 · Feb 21, 2011

The other respondents have covered most of the things that cause varriables. One that I did not see is a cleaned, oiled barrel. I always expect the first-and perhaps more-shots to be errant out of a clean oiled barrel. To ofset this, I run a couple of patches with denatured alcohol or carburetor cleaner followed by a couple of dry patches prior to a range session. Then some rifles like a little fouling crud in the barrel before they behave. Do not give up too quickly. Good luck, Jack

GJinNY

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 22, 2011

I got brave and took the front stock, barrel bands, and screws all off the front to look for snug spots.
the front stock band was pretty snug so I did file under the band. Nothing else seemed to bind anywhere.

Upon reassembly, the 2 band screws can make a big difference as to how bound the tube, front stock and barrel get.

Now the question.... How loose is too loose and how tight is too tight?

Eli Chaps

· #15 · Feb 23, 2011

GJinNY said:
I got brave and took the front stock, barrel bands, and screws all off the front to look for snug spots.
the front stock band was pretty snug so I did file under the band. Nothing else seemed to bind anywhere.

Upon reassembly, the 2 band screws can make a big difference as to how bound the tube, front stock and barrel get.

Now the question.... How loose is too loose and how tight is too tight?

Indeed.

On a field rifle, I like to gently sand the insides of the bands and test fit as I go until they are snug but not "overly" tight. There's that subjective part.

GJinNY

Discussion Starter · #16 · Feb 23, 2011

the bands without the screws are loose. It's the screws that snug things so much.
I can get another full turn once they begin to snug.
Should I stop when they begin and put a drop of LOKTITE in the threads?

Eli Chaps

· #17 · Feb 23, 2011

GJinNY said:
the bands without the screws are loose. It's the screws that snug things so much.
I can get another full turn once they begin to snug.
Should I stop when they begin and put a drop of LOKTITE in the threads?

The rear barrel band (on the forearm) "screw" is really just a stud. It won't tighten the band by tightening the screw. The threads are actually under the head instead of at the end of the shank. They are there just to hold the screw in place. The shank keeps the mag tube from moving forward. These are very easy to snap the head off of when tightening down so just snug it up.

The front band screw doesn't need to be over-tightened either. Just snug enough that things aren't going anywhere. Some clear fingernail polish should keep them in place if you feel the need and is a little more forgiving than Loc-Tite on those small screws.

Golfbuddy45

· #18 · Feb 23, 2011

In all my bolt guns all the talk is about ensuring your barrel is free floating to prevent the barrel from being pushed or pressed away from center. In lever rifles there is no such talk, perhaps due to the inherent forestock design? Obviously it can not "float" on the barrel as there would be nothing connected. I have not taken off the stocks but is it possible to put all the pressure on the cartride tube and take it off the barrel?

Halwg

· #19 · Feb 23, 2011

Eli Chaps said:
The rear barrel band (on the forearm) "screw" is really just a stud. It won't tighten the band by tightening the screw. The threads are actually under the head instead of at the end of the shank. They are there just to hold the screw in place. The shank keeps the mag tube from moving forward. These are very easy to snap the head off of when tightening down so just snug it up.

The front band screw doesn't need to be over-tightened either. Just snug enough that things aren't going anywhere. Some clear fingernail polish should keep them in place if you feel the need and is a little more forgiving than Loc-Tite on those small screws.

What Erik said!

GJinNY

Discussion Starter · #20 · Feb 23, 2011

You are right about the band on the fore end stock, just a pin more or less.

The front band screw is tricky, tighten just enough to keep things from moving.

We'll see on Thursday at the gun range.

Another thought...I was shooting the last few weeks in 15 F and 25 F.

Think the outside temp was a factor? Warm barrel to cold fore end stock?

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