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Discussion Starter #21
Hey there RR665 -- Not at all, if you think it's worthwhile. Best regards. Wind
 

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Its worthwhile....or at least I think so...you've just showed me how to get rid of that infernal bulge. I knew it was the dies, but wasn't sure the Cowboy dies would do the trick...

I have a couple of questions for you....

Whats the diameter of the expander in those dies? (below the part that flares the mouth)

Whats the inside diameter of the sized cases? (before and after being expanded and flared)
 

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Cowboy dies or other when a die full length resizes to sami spec and then you seat an oversize bullet how do you not have some bulge? Are you backing off on the sizing die untill there is no bulge which in turn would make the brass not sami spec? Maybe when you set your die to touch the shell holder it's over doing it? More of an explanation please as I do not see how you have (no) bulge.

I use cowboy dies on the 38-55 and still have the bulge. Does a Lee die size smaller than a cowboy die???????????

As far as I know...and that aint all that much....either die sizes to speck, but the cowboy flares the case mouth larger for oversize cast bullets.

In fact when loading jacketed .458 bullets with Lee's there is still bulge, but you have none with the RCBS Cowboy dies?
 

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I get bulges when I reload my 45-70 but I noticed the factory hornady rounds all had bulges so didn't think it was a problem.I use lee dies an tried all sorts flaring depths but still couldn't get them to disappear totally. The cases were both hornady a winchester they still seem to function an perform all right
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Well boys and girls -- You made me pull my expander die apart!! Again this is just my take on the issue. Here are three pictures (hopefully they'll load in this order).

The end of the expanding die -- You'll notice the wear on the plug. The flaring is done between the shiny ring closest to the threads on the right side and the ring of little trimming particles accumulating on the stem. It's probably time to hose them out with brake cleaner. The belling plug is straight and the diameter is in the micrometer window.

Inside the case before belling. (This dial indicator got introduced to something that damaged the lense. Be careful with solvents.) This is a Starline case, as that is all I have this morning as fired.

Inside the case mouth after belling. This is a Winchester case. Mixing Starline and Winchester may cloud the issue somewhat, but I don't think it's worth dwelling on.

Again... I'm using bullets sized to .459". As often as we call the 45-70 a straight walled case, it is in reality tapered. With belling the full dept of the expander plug, and adding a minute flare, the case taper and expander may be meeting at a point that reduces or eliminates the bulge.

There are plenty of other variables, especially a larger diameter bullet, that may produce case bulges. I do see this especially in my 32-40 because of a very large bullet diameter.

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Hey there Jonny V -- I don't know if they will work in a Dillon 550 either. My Dillon seems to be focused towards pistol caliber cartridges. I use an older Rockchucker (RCBS) for most all of my rifle cartridges. If you are just getting into reloading, I'd recommend getting at least one single stage press. They are very useful for other operations as well, such as using a Lee push through sizer, or pulling bullets with a collet style puller, and swaging military style primer pockets for example. Best regards. Wind
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Hey there lever addict -- I re-read your post. I think the bulge issue may fall in the "belling" part of the operation, not the flaring. In the expander plug photo, you almost can't even see the "flare". Here are some more photos. The first shows the Cowboy 32-40 bell in new brass. This bulge almost always occurs. It also shows the depth of the bell. Again the flare is minute. The second picture (hopefully) shows a 32-40 case reloaded after it's been fired, the far right hand cartridge in that picture. No bulge. And the third picture has a 45-70 case (upper) loaded with my old Herter's die. There is your bulge. The case under it is one loaded with the new Cowboy dies. In the top cartridge, you can see a case neck split, crimped down on the bullet.

I'm afraid I don't have the experience with all the dies on the market to offer much of a comparison between them. I'm just suggesting that using full steps in the resizing operation, along with full belling and a little flare, may help reduce bulging.

Best regards. Wind
 

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Bear with a newb here Wind as i'm more lost than before! The first pic shows a bell in new brass? New as in resized or not. The bell is made by the expander plug...correct? Now...your telling me after you fired it and then reloaded the case there is no more bulge(2nd pic). If it was full length resized bringing it back to spec then how is there no bulge unless the case diameter is bigger than before? That 45-70 round looks great with no bulge. Maybe the Cowboy dies don't resize a case as small as others? I have never been able to reload jacketed or lead with no bulge in 45-70. My 38-55 with the RCBS Cowboy dies and a Laser Cast .380 gives me a bulge. What am I doing wrong? Lou who is dazed and confused.:biggrin:

I would love to have no bulge...unless of course the missus gave it to me.
 

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Well, I guess I'm in the opposite school on this one. The two 38-55's and the two 45-70 cartridges in the picture below were de-capped re-primed and loaded.....no resizing at all. You may also note that there is no bulge.



Just a dissenting opinion. :hmmmm:

.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
Hey there Lou -- The simple answer is lay off the jelly doughnuts! As far as the new brass bulge goes...I think new brass is manufactured slightly under sized. Usually there is a note included in the new box of brass saying something like "trim to length and re-size before using" . The 32-40 brass was untouched by the sizing die when new, with the exception of straightening out kinks in the case mouth from handling/shipping. Once the brass has been sized, loaded and fired, it's now in whatever configuration your rifle chamber exhibits (fire formed). At this point, probably bigger than what it was leaving the manufacturing facility. Now you re-size back to spec. From here on out, I think the bulge issue depends on belling, flaring, and crimping. The use of larger than standard bullet diameters will produce bulges in any case. I'm using somewhat standard bullet diameters (.459") in my 45-70, coupled with full length sizing, all the bell available, and seeing less case bulge . I use a Ballard Rifle die for my 38-55 and do show a bulge with .380" and .381" diameter bullets. I also look at the 38-55 as almost a "special needs caliber" anyway. Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

EDIT: Hey there Jim --Funny your post wasn't showing when I got started on this one. Not re-sizing is a whole different philosophy. Do the 38-55's in your picture chamber easily in all your 38-55 chambered rifles? Both Marlin and Winchester? Best regards. Wind
 

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Thanks Wind. I have never tried fireformed cases in my rifles before. I could see how there would be little to no bulge doing this. I'm wondering if there would be any feeding issues? I know it would fit the bore perfectly just not sure about the feeding. Somehow though you are full length resizing and not getting the bulge. What kind of doughnuts do you eat?:biggrin:

Jbledsoe I will try not full length resizing next time and see what happens!

Thanks guys!
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Hey again lever addict -- Jim is not re-sizing at all. He is essentially reloading fire formed brass. I think that the partial re-sizing is what is raising the bulge issue. Either full length re-size, or don't re-size at all. I have a Mauser chamber that won't camber un-sized brass or just neck sized brass from a Springfield chamber. If you have one rifle in the caliber you're reloading for, not re-sizing may play. In Jim's case, it may play for all his rifles. Wet Dog and I have experienced non-interchangeable rounds between our 38-55 rifles. The whole point of what I'm trying to say is don't take shortcuts. Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind
 

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Thanks again Wind. I have always full length resized for the 45-70. Loading .458 jacketed always gave the bulge with Lee dies. With .460 cast it's understandable, but not with .458 jacketed! Might be time to try different dies!
 

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Hi gang.

I posted the comment about not resizing at all just to show that there are alternatives, not as a suggestion for reloading.

I suggest that you do not use that method unless you know exactly what you are doing, or you name is Swany. :biggrin: Also, it doesn't work when loading ammo for several rifles unless they all have the same exact chamber dimensions.

Wind No, it does not work with and will not chamber in the Winchesters. The non resized ammo is for one 38-55 Marlin CB and one 45-70 Marlin CB, my ammo probably would not work in your rifle.
 

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Hey Wind, Photos are outstanding!! Nice lighting.

That Starline brass,for 38-55, sized and belled with the belling die (.379) from RCBS Cowboy set leaves a slight bulge in my bullets, that is slight (faint) compared to the other belling die (.395?) .My 45-70 reloads are pretty bulge free, sized and belled identically to yours. I am using some of that Winchester brass from yer buddy up there. Waiting on 45-70 from Starline in Jan.
 

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Jumping in here,What I do.Start with fire formed cases,Measure the ID. measure your bullet,start your sizing die way high,like 1/2 inch or more.Size until you get your case ID. down to .004 smaller than your boolit,take a lee universal flaring die flare (bell) and you will be good to go.Your brass will not be over worked,no budges,the round will probably be more centered when it"s in the chamber.


edit,The boolit I use is .462 so I size mine down to .458,hope this helps.YMMV
 

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Wind,
Thanks for the information. I have always done a full resizing and I have had one (1) count em, one case fail. I have reloaded most of my brass 10 to 15 times. I use Remington's 405 grain soft point with GREAT accuracy and I use 38 grains if IMR4198 and have had great luck. I have to shoot at the local gun range and at 25 yards I have small cover leaf holes. I am happy and my son has designs on my passing this wonderful 1895SS onto him when I am too old to shoot.
 
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As often as we call the 45-70 a straight walled case, it is in reality tapered. With belling the full dept of the expander plug, and adding a minute flare, the case taper and expander may be meeting at a point that reduces or eliminates the bulge.
I looked at old cartridge drawings and noticed that too.

Its actually supposed to taper up to the base of the bullet, then be .480" (outside diameter) from there up....but that would require very specific dies (for each type of bullet). The taper is very slight but thats what was common for rounds of that time...the 40-65 is an example where its easier to see at a glance (I checked some out at a gun show)
 
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