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Along with registration and taxes come storage requirements and a built-in state authority to inspect your premises at any time of the day or night. Limits on how many firearm of what type are right around the corner.

Do you really believe that the goon squad won't hold you responsible for a firearm that is supposed to be in your household if it can't be immediately produced for inspection?

Why exactly do think the ATF forces citizen to fill out Form 4473? It's so that they can locate guns and gun-owners.

Oh... You lost that gun? You'll never own or lose another.

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None of what Biden is proposing will withstand a challenge in the courts. In fact, by doing what is suggested here may actually bring the un-constitutionality of the 1934 NFA into the spotlight. Several legal experts and even BATFE officials have admitted that the NFA is a violation of The Second Amendment. They...meaning the Antis...could end up with even less than they started out with.
But, but ,but. It's the LAW! :devilish:
 

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Reminds me of the poll tax. It was removed because they can not tax a right. The SCOTUS has ruled that owning a firearm is an individual right. This makes the NFA invalid.

Biden would have to change the NFA to make changes in the type of firearm covered. That would have to go through congress. It can not be done by EO.
Ah, but here is where the interpretation and hair-splitting kicks in. You have a right to ownership and they have (in their opinion) constitutional means to levy taxes. A tax itself does not prevent ownership. However, a tax does place limits on who might own and what they can own. As that pertains to firearms, IT IS AN INFRINGEMENT. Pretty smart those founder guys. If only we had held our goverment to the standards set by the constitution, and maybe acted in accordance with it now and then.....
 

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A law is only as good as the people that follow it. When the populace say no we are not going to comply, then the law is pointless. Because the Government can't come after the masses. When they do it is only after the group is divided. Like the saying goes. United we stand, divided we fall. Let's hope that the Senate prevails.
IMO, laws are meaningless if not constitutional, regardless of whether that "law" has been contested in court, or not. No law should ever come into being without first being weighed and validated against the constitution. But that's not how this country operates. How many times have you heard we are nation of laws vs we are a nation of consitutional laws? 99:1 would be my guess, if the odds are that good......

While I agree with you on principle, the unfortunate reality is, as long as there are large enough numbers willing to enforce/obey laws with no regard for the constitutionality of those laws, rule by threat/oppression will not only continue, it will become more prevalent. Also, do not discount those who would swiftly and willingly offer up you and your rights to preserve themselves and their own chosen way of life.
 

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Ok, in Germany we have the right to own guns, if we need them for hunting or sporting (not just for fun ;-). ). If you want the first gun, you need to be 18 of 21 years, you have to do a course, and you must be a sane and lawful person. Since 1976 the Law gets harder every few years. But you have not to give away a gun, that you got legal under the, older, law.
We are about 82 million citizens in Germany and own about 10 million guns. I think we are about 3 million legal owners. But we have less landscape than the US and so less chance for hunting or plinking...

The police think there are about 10 to 20 million illegal guns! And that is the danger, you can not touch them by law.

In my opinion, a good gun law is necessary for every country. There are some guns, that I just want only in the hands of military or police service - machineguns, for example.

I am a legal owner of guns, I know, that the police are able to control my guns every time in my house. I accept that.
 

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Ok, in Germany we have the right to own guns, if we need them for hunting or sporting (not just for fun ;-). ). If you want the first gun, you need to be 18 of 21 years, you have to do a course, and you must be a sane and lawful person.

In my opinion, a good gun law is necessary in every country. There are some guns, that I just want only in the hands of military or police service - machineguns, for example.
I am a legal owner of guns, I know, that the police are able to control my guns every time in my house. I accept that.
We as a species seem to have a very poor memory of the past. It's almost like we are incapable of learning anything from the lessons of history. There are certain parts of Locke's political philosophy that I like: Humans have the inalienable rights of life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of their own goals. That the Government operates with the consent of the people. That the danger with Democracies is that the wants of the minority are not taken into account by the majority. Therefore mob rule can become oppressive of the minority and in theory, become a tyrannical organization devoted to remaining in power.

Our founding fathers, bless their souls, were smart enough to write one of the most comprehensive binding documents for the formation of our Republic. The system of checks and balances, the electoral college, the Bill of Rights laid out those inalienable rights that the government could not bypass all of which protected the rights of the minority and prevented mob rule.

We've seen time and time again in history that an armed society is a polite society. A government that fears its people represents its people. When a government has no reason to fear its people then that government will oppress and destroy those with who they do not agree with, or who they blame for whatever societal problems that they believe will mobilize their supporters.

We've had our share of issues here in the States. Our Government disarmed the Native Americans, then stole their land, murdered them indiscriminately, and forced them to live on Reservations. The world has had its issues too. Nazi Germany disarmed its population, then started murdering those who they did not agree with, or who they decided were undesirables. The Soviet Union disarmed its population, two purges later after the Bolshevik Revolution, and World War 2 killed millions. Same for Venezuela. Same for Cuba. Same for China.

Americans by our very nature are suspicious of Government. In modern politics, it's not important to do what's best for the country, and its people; but to ensure that your side remains in power. Our Second Amendment gives us the right to act as the final check and balance of Government. Why on earth would any rational individual want the Government to be responsible for the regulation of the way that we can exercise that final check and balance?
 

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Well said Washington1331 !!

IMHO the USA is the last truly free piece of ground on this planet. Freedoms last stand will take place here...very soon it seems...and it has come down to people like us to preserve freedom through any means necessary. We owe it to the rest of the world...they who look to our lifestyle as inspiration of what they can become in their own countries. If we fail...
 

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Im not totally sold on biden "winning " the election., and For the record I have no guns..........

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Me neither......
 
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Me neither......
It's a matter of semantics. Trump may in reality have won with the people...BUT Biden may have won the election on paper. If Biden is sworn in on January 20th and takes the reins of power, it matters little if his "winning" the election was all an illsuion. I would argue that the end result is the same as if he had won fair and square...BUT we know that it doesn't have to be. IMHO the millions who voted for Trump should remind Biden and his constituency every waking minute of the next four years that his is an illegitimate office won by conspiracy, deception, fraud, theft. After all, they tried to do that very same thing to us.
 
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We've seen time and time again in history that an armed society is a polite society. A government which fears its people represents its people. When a government has no reason to fear its people then that government will oppress and destroy those who they do not agree with, or who they blame for what ever societal problems that they believe will mobilize their supporters.
Entire post is very well written, but I believe the above is worth repeating. Thanks!
 

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Yep, I am an elitist, liberal, East coast yellow dog democrat. Yes, I agree Trump did not get credit for many of the things he acomplished. I remember he said he would build a big, beautiful wall and Mexico would pay for it. He said if he was elected, he would be so busy he would not have time for golf. He was so proud of his wonderful friendship with the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea's favorite son. And today he presented General Flynn a total pardon for lying about what he said to Russian agents before Trump became president. Best wishes to all of you traveling to get together with your extended family this holiday. We all know Covid19 is a hoax.
 

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Ok, in Germany we have the right to own guns, if we need them for hunting or sporting (not just for fun ;-). ). If you want the first gun, you need to be 18 of 21 years, you have to do a course, and you must be a sane and lawful person. Since 1976 the Law gets harder every few years. But you have not to give away a gun, that you got legal under the, older, law.
We are about 82 million citizens in Germany and own about 10 million guns. I think we are about 3 million legal owners. But we have less landscape than the US and so less chance for hunting or plinking...

The police think there are about 10 to 20 million illegal guns! And that is the danger, you can not touch them by law.

In my opinion, a good gun law is necessary for every country. There are some guns, that I just want only in the hands of military or police service - machineguns, for example.

I am a legal owner of guns, I know, that the police are able to control my guns every time in my house. I accept that.
Lieber Herr joealt73,
I'm an American who lived and worked for many years in Munich, Hannover, and Stuttgart. Firearms ownership in Germany requires one to be a licensed hunter or a licensed sport shooter or a licensed collector. I obtained my hunting license in 1988 and also jumped through all the loops to obtain the explosives license (Sprengstoffserwerbsschein) required in order to buy nitro powder and black powder for respecitvely cartridge handloading and shooting muzzleloaders. In purchasing my gun safe (Waffenschrank), I chose a custom model that met the most stringent requirements at that time, and of course had two police officers inspect my residence to confirm the legality of my means of storing both firearms and powder.
I did not object to all of these requirements as I did to difficulties in dealing with local bureaucracies staffed with "officials" who lacked adequate knowlege of hunting law and firearms in general. Because of my German surname and fluency in speaking German, most did not at first realize that I was a foreigner. While American hunters living in Bavaria, Baden-W眉rttemberg, and Rheinland-Pfalz had no difficulty in applying for a European Union Firearms Passport (EU-Feuerwaffenpa脽), the "worthy public servants" Hannover, who had never before dealt with an American, told me that they would have to have a meeting to decide on a policy in issuing me an EU Firearms Passport. For a few other matters, they had to telephone counterparts in Bavaria for advice on administering my hunting and explosives licenses.
The crowning "achievement" was when I applied for my federal-level weapons registration card (WBK) and some bureaucrat at the BVA in K枚ln, perhaps having seen too many Westerns, tried to deny registration of my pump-action shotgun (Vorderschaftflinte) in 12/83 gauge and two lever-action rifles (Unterhebelrepetierer), Savage 99C in 284 Winchester and Marlin 1895SS in 45-70, claiming that they were unsuited to hunting in Germany. This was at a time when the Marlin 1895 was becoming something of a fad for hunting wild boar, and about fourteen years after I had legally registered all three guns with the Munich Landratsamt! I'm a life member of Forum Waffenrecht, and requested from them a referral to a lawyer who could help me, but the matter was solved before I had to resort to legal remedy.
I have subscribed to Deutsche Jagd-Zeitung for over thirty years, and last month's (October) edition carries an article describing harsher changes coming to German hunting law. It would be good if law-abiding hunters in Germany had some means of seeking redress at the parliamentary level of the government, but there are plenty of Bundestag members who are opposed to hunting.
Ois Guade auf guat boarisch gsogt!
 

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Yep, I am an elitist, liberal, East coast yellow dog democrat. Yes, I agree Trump did not get credit for many of the things he acomplished. I remember he said he would build a big, beautiful wall and Mexico would pay for it. He said if he was elected, he would be so busy he would not have time for golf. He was so proud of his wonderful friendship with the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea's favorite son. And today he presented General Flynn a total pardon for lying about what he said to Russian agents before Trump became president. Best wishes to all of you traveling to get together with your extended family this holiday. We all know Covid19 is a hoax.
Are you sure you are on the right forum ?
 

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Control of the senate is in grave doubt. :(

Come on Georgia!
I am just curious what makes people think that the same thing that happened in November won't happen in January. There has already been a record number of mail-in ballots requested, the same ballot machines and software are being used, the same media (mainstream and social) have not been held accountable, and the money is flowing in. The Democrats have perfected election theft. I, for one, do not hold out much hope and have little faith in enough of us standing up...glad I am old!
 
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Lieber Herr joealt73,
I'm an American who lived and worked for many years in Munich, Hannover, and Stuttgart. Firearms ownership in Germany requires one to be a licensed hunter or a licensed sport shooter or a licensed collector. I obtained my hunting license in 1988 and also jumped through all the loops to obtain the explosives license (Sprengstoffserwerbsschein) required in order to buy nitro powder and black powder for respecitvely cartridge handloading and shooting muzzleloaders. In purchasing my gun safe (Waffenschrank), I chose a custom model that met the most stringent requirements at that time, and of course had two police officers inspect my residence to confirm the legality of my means of storing both firearms and powder.
I did not object to all of these requirements as I did to difficulties in dealing with local bureaucracies staffed with "officials" who lacked adequate knowlege of hunting law and firearms in general. Because of my German surname and fluency in speaking German, most did not at first realize that I was a foreigner. While American hunters living in Bavaria, Baden-W眉rttemberg, and Rheinland-Pfalz had no difficulty in applying for a European Union Firearms Passport (EU-Feuerwaffenpa脽), the "worthy public servants" Hannover, who had never before dealt with an American, told me that they would have to have a meeting to decide on a policy in issuing me an EU Firearms Passport. For a few other matters, they had to telephone counterparts in Bavaria for advice on administering my hunting and explosives licenses.
The crowning "achievement" was when I applied for my federal-level weapons registration card (WBK) and some bureaucrat at the BVA in K枚ln, perhaps having seen too many Westerns, tried to deny registration of my pump-action shotgun (Vorderschaftflinte) in 12/83 gauge and two lever-action rifles (Unterhebelrepetierer), Savage 99C in 284 Winchester and Marlin 1895SS in 45-70, claiming that they were unsuited to hunting in Germany. This was at a time when the Marlin 1895 was becoming something of a fad for hunting wild boar, and about fourteen years after I had legally registered all three guns with the Munich Landratsamt! I'm a life member of Forum Waffenrecht, and requested from them a referral to a lawyer who could help me, but the matter was solved before I had to resort to legal remedy.
I have subscribed to Deutsche Jagd-Zeitung for over thirty years, and last month's (October) edition carries an article describing harsher changes coming to German hunting law. It would be good if law-abiding hunters in Germany had some means of seeking redress at the parliamentary level of the government, but there are plenty of Bundestag members who are opposed to hunting.
Ois Guade auf guat boarisch gsogt!
Servus schwarzwildabknaller!
Thanks for the report of your expirience with german "b眉rocrats".
I am sure, a lot - maybe most - german gun owners can tell about similar incidents. Not every offical did his job because he / she is good in that job...or is interested in it. Mostly the law sets them their limits.
Vermutlich k枚nnten wir den weiteren Austausch besser in deutsch machen - sicher bist Du um L盲ngen fitter in Deutsch, als ich in Englisch.
Viele Gr眉脽e an den "Schwarzkittelkiller" ....
keep your powder dry!
 

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EVEN if you choose to be a sheep and register your guns and pay the $200 per-gun tax, it will be but a year to two until a government agent shows up at your door demanding you hand that firearm over to the federal government. If you register or pay a tax on your gun, you have just handed over your country to communism - if not in that moment then in the next short moments to come.
Never give up fighting for the freedom that all our Fathers and Grandfathers sacrificed so much to keep. No man escapes when freedom fails; The best men rot in filthy jails; As those who cried Apease, Apease, are hung by those they sought to please.
 
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