Hi i am a newbie here, I have Marline gbl 45/70 (18.5) I cast some boolets using wheel weight in 427 gr. just plain, no gas check.I am going to use this rifle for plinking only.. I would like to know what will be the best powder to use and what will be a good recipe for it, not max load but not minimum load , kind of in the middle, I am thinking of IMR 3031 or IMR 4198..any suggestion is highly appreciated...thanks..
best powder for 45/70?
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First off, Welcome to the Forum!
I'm still getting used to my 1895SS, and have only recently started reloading 45/70, but twelve grains of Unique or 18 grains of 2400 make good plinking loads with 400 grain bullets. There's plenty of data to be found for this awesome 138-year old cartridge, all you have to worry about is which pressure level it's loaded to. Reloder 7 and the 4198's are favorite powders in the 45/70 and 375 Winchester, but 3031 works well, as does 4895, Varget, AA-2520, SR-4759, AA-5744, there's quite a list of useful powders. As many members as we have that load the 45/70, you should get plenty of suggestions!
I'm still getting used to my 1895SS, and have only recently started reloading 45/70, but twelve grains of Unique or 18 grains of 2400 make good plinking loads with 400 grain bullets. There's plenty of data to be found for this awesome 138-year old cartridge, all you have to worry about is which pressure level it's loaded to. Reloder 7 and the 4198's are favorite powders in the 45/70 and 375 Winchester, but 3031 works well, as does 4895, Varget, AA-2520, SR-4759, AA-5744, there's quite a list of useful powders. As many members as we have that load the 45/70, you should get plenty of suggestions!
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I doubt you're going to find much data for a 437 grain bullet, it's not exactly a common weight.
Look for data using slightly heavier bullets and start from there.
All Hodgdon shows for bullets over 400 grains is Trapdoor (low pressure) data, they list a 485 grain slug with IMR-4198, 30.5 grains gives 1364 fps at 17.5K CUP, up to a maximum of 32.5 grains for 1439 fps at 21.5K CUP.
Look for data using slightly heavier bullets and start from there.
All Hodgdon shows for bullets over 400 grains is Trapdoor (low pressure) data, they list a 485 grain slug with IMR-4198, 30.5 grains gives 1364 fps at 17.5K CUP, up to a maximum of 32.5 grains for 1439 fps at 21.5K CUP.
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I am with Swany, RL-7 is all I shoot out of my .45-70 with both 325 and 405 GC Beartooth boolits. I am even going to try it out in my .444 once I get back as per the Marshall's data on Beartooth's website under reloader swap for the 290 Gr GC.
Chief
Chief
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While my eyesight isn't what it once was I more or less consistently find for plinking loads I have had the best accuracy with 5744 with very little leading issues. I have tried RL7 and Unique from 12 to 15 gr but never could seem to get the accuracy. I do intend to try Trail Boss soon!
These were 4 round groups with 5744 at 50 yds with a Skinner peep sight. The first was with 350gr Laser Cast and 27gr of 5744 with Starline brass and CCI primers. The second was with 405gr Laser Cast and 28gr of 5744, same primer and brass. I didn't chronograph them. I have heard some say that 5744 is a little position sensitive while others say that isn't so.. One of these days I am going to break out the chrony and see for myself.
These were 4 round groups with 5744 at 50 yds with a Skinner peep sight. The first was with 350gr Laser Cast and 27gr of 5744 with Starline brass and CCI primers. The second was with 405gr Laser Cast and 28gr of 5744, same primer and brass. I didn't chronograph them. I have heard some say that 5744 is a little position sensitive while others say that isn't so.. One of these days I am going to break out the chrony and see for myself.
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IMR-4198
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"Best" often depends on the bullet weight involved, or the velocity desired. H-322 very works well with heavy bullets, but isn't the best powder for lighter bullets unless you want to set the woods on fire. Unique and 2400 are good for reduced loads, but top out pretty quickly. Re-7 and either of the 4198's seem to handle the lion's share of 45/70 chores well, but figuring out what you want to accomplish with the load is the first order of bidness. 8)
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I'd use nothing but Trail Boss. Start around 13gr, and work up from there. I've been using that behind 405gr Lyman 457193 cast bullets, and find that it reaches out to 100yds quite well, is quite acceptably accurate @50yds, and the recoil can be handled all day long - a real "cream puff" load. Very enjoyable for plinking.tokwa said:
For plinking with the .45-70, using 405 gr RNFP cast boolits, sized to 0.459" I also use the IMR-Trail Boss powder - - 13.0 gr (which is listed as the max), fills the case nicely and produces 1,009 fps from my 1895-CB with very low SD. At 50 yards, this load will shoot 1-inch, five-shot groups all day long with iron sights.
Another load that is a step up from the Trail Boss load but is still pretty mild is Alliant 2400 under the same 405 gr RNFP cast boolit - - 23.0 gr of 2400 produces 1,500 fps (again, with low SD, and great accuracy).
For full-snort loads, the only powder I have worked with so far is Re-7, and it has done very well in the loads I have tested. From the 1895-CB, those full-snort loads get kind of uncomfortable after 20 or 30 rounds though. It sort of takes some of the fun out of testing, however, the slip-on recoil pad (that I finally got) for those circumstances helps considerably. By the way, it only took the first range session of ~30 loads for me to figure that Cowboy recoil business out. : Thank goodness for the Limb-Saver slip-on. So far, I have only used the Re-7 under a 300 gr H'dy JHP with velocities anywhere from 1,900 to 2,050 fps. Can't remember the charge weight, or which loads were more accurate, but the Re-7 produced good results for me.
Another load that is a step up from the Trail Boss load but is still pretty mild is Alliant 2400 under the same 405 gr RNFP cast boolit - - 23.0 gr of 2400 produces 1,500 fps (again, with low SD, and great accuracy).
For full-snort loads, the only powder I have worked with so far is Re-7, and it has done very well in the loads I have tested. From the 1895-CB, those full-snort loads get kind of uncomfortable after 20 or 30 rounds though. It sort of takes some of the fun out of testing, however, the slip-on recoil pad (that I finally got) for those circumstances helps considerably. By the way, it only took the first range session of ~30 loads for me to figure that Cowboy recoil business out. :
Thank goodness for the Limb-Saver slip-on. So far, I have only used the Re-7 under a 300 gr H'dy JHP with velocities anywhere from 1,900 to 2,050 fps. Can't remember the charge weight, or which loads were more accurate, but the Re-7 produced good results for me.
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Wouldn't you get a lot more shots for your money with Unique?
With powder costs being what they are in my neck of the woods, comparing the cost of a 13.0 grain load of Trail Boss to a 15.0 grain load of Unique for a max of each, my cost per shot is $0.0529 (powder only) for Trail Boss vs. $0.0493 per shot (powder only) for Unique. But, after reading some posts by Rowdy and his load work research with the .45-70 regarding the accuracy of Trail Boss vs. Unique, I decided to go for the great accuracy afforded by IMR-Trail Boss in the reduced loads. Even if it means an additional whopping 1/3 of a penny more per shot, $0.36 more per 100, $3.60 per 1,000, etc...TNWoodsman said:
Sorry, couldn't help myself - - just had a similar discussion down at the LGS last night, so we figured all this out on his calculator, figuring $16.00 per 9 oz bottle of Trail Boss vs. $23.00 per 16 oz. bottle of Unique.
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Best powder for the 45/70 ----------------- depends!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have been testing a 465gr boolit, and nothing has given me the consistancy of the last time out when I tried, at the recommendation of my mold maker, H335.
This is the most consistant and best groups I have seen to date with my RUGER #1 and I have tried most all of the powders listed, except for the Unique, 2400, Trailboss etc..
Been there with 4198, 3031, RL7, H322 and some others
My 45/70 is a hunting rifle for deer, elk so am not interested in the lighter loads.
The load which took my early season Anterless cow elk a couple weeks ago was a 465gr cast at about 1700fps.
That was an AWESOME load for that huge and barren cow.
Keep em coming!
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
I have been testing a 465gr boolit, and nothing has given me the consistancy of the last time out when I tried, at the recommendation of my mold maker, H335.
This is the most consistant and best groups I have seen to date with my RUGER #1 and I have tried most all of the powders listed, except for the Unique, 2400, Trailboss etc..
Been there with 4198, 3031, RL7, H322 and some others
My 45/70 is a hunting rifle for deer, elk so am not interested in the lighter loads.
The load which took my early season Anterless cow elk a couple weeks ago was a 465gr cast at about 1700fps.
That was an AWESOME load for that huge and barren cow.
Keep em coming!
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
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"...... figuring $16.00 per 9 oz bottle of Trail Boss vs. $23.00 per 16 oz. bottle of Unique."
Trail Boss, using Power Valley's pricing, works out to be about 19.91 per lb. while Unique goes for 14.70 per pound. The nine ounce price of Trail Boss from Powder Valley is 11.20. Assuming the powders get approximately the same speed with the same charge, which is fairly close to correct, the Trail Boss works out to be about 35% more expensive per shot.
Using Powder Valley's prices, and conveniently ignoring shipping costs for both powders, works out to about 3.7 cents per shot for Trail Boss and 2.7 cents per shot for Unique, difference 1.0 cents per shot. I suppose if you bought powder by the eight pound batch that would serve to offset shipping costs to a large degree, especially if you bought in volume with others to lower the per unit cost in shipping.
DWB, if you're paying 23.00 per lb. for Unique, you're getting robbed....big time! Even locally I get Unique for around eighteen bucks for a single pound from Scheel's.
I note that 13 grains of Red Dot gets in the 1100 fps vicinity with a 405 from my Marlin 22", while 16 of Unique gets 1260. If you really want to lowball things, Promo can be had for about 10.50 to 11 bucks per lb. in eight pound jugs, and gets the same speed as Red Dot at the same charge weight.
I have not found much difference between the fast powders in terms of accuracy, including Trail Boss. Given that all must develop approximately the same pressure to get the same velocity, this hasn't surprised me a whole lot. In any event, with plainbase bullets, the slower powders produce the best accuracy for me at a given velocity level, assuming it isn't too low, as in the 1100 to 1400 fps range. Such as 2400, 4759, 5744, etc.
Trail Boss, using Power Valley's pricing, works out to be about 19.91 per lb. while Unique goes for 14.70 per pound. The nine ounce price of Trail Boss from Powder Valley is 11.20. Assuming the powders get approximately the same speed with the same charge, which is fairly close to correct, the Trail Boss works out to be about 35% more expensive per shot.
Using Powder Valley's prices, and conveniently ignoring shipping costs for both powders, works out to about 3.7 cents per shot for Trail Boss and 2.7 cents per shot for Unique, difference 1.0 cents per shot. I suppose if you bought powder by the eight pound batch that would serve to offset shipping costs to a large degree, especially if you bought in volume with others to lower the per unit cost in shipping.
DWB, if you're paying 23.00 per lb. for Unique, you're getting robbed....big time! Even locally I get Unique for around eighteen bucks for a single pound from Scheel's.
I note that 13 grains of Red Dot gets in the 1100 fps vicinity with a 405 from my Marlin 22", while 16 of Unique gets 1260. If you really want to lowball things, Promo can be had for about 10.50 to 11 bucks per lb. in eight pound jugs, and gets the same speed as Red Dot at the same charge weight.
I have not found much difference between the fast powders in terms of accuracy, including Trail Boss. Given that all must develop approximately the same pressure to get the same velocity, this hasn't surprised me a whole lot. In any event, with plainbase bullets, the slower powders produce the best accuracy for me at a given velocity level, assuming it isn't too low, as in the 1100 to 1400 fps range. Such as 2400, 4759, 5744, etc.
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One more vote for TrailBoss, for "plinking" application. Particularly for new reloaders. It's impossible to get a double charge of TB, and you'll have to work really hard to get any pressure problems with it. The only way that I know of is to compress the charge. Once you get used to your rifle and if you want to hunt with it, you probably want to delve into other powders As for the price difference, if you're plinking with 427 grain bullets it's obvious that cost isn't a real big problem!
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For my money, I think I'll stick with Unique.
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