[Seabass]

Any ideas on what would be the best bullet, best speed,combo for all North America game? What would work well on a deer may not work well on a moose or grizz or visa versa?

Thoughts?

 

[soldierofchrist]

To me a Hard cast bullet weighing 420 grains running about 1650 fps to 1700 fps fits the bill quite nicely. Nice thing about 45-70, the bullet hole is already big on entrance.

 

[Corbi]

How about a 405 grain cast at a moderate velocity for tough game? Substitute your favorite jacketed soft point for thin skin game.

3031 fills the case nicely. Depending on the make of the brass you will need 50-55 grains of powder for a slightly compressed charge. I'm thinking velocity between 1650-1800 FPS.

Corbi

 

[Dr. A]

I guess that question is a huge bag of worms. The real question is what load would the highest number of real hunters be satisfied with? There is the 300gr. bullet contingent. Most of those prefer the 300gr. Nosler partition going 2000fps plus. Substituting the Speer may work in some places. There are those of us that like the 400 to 420gr. cast going moderate speeds. There are those of us that like the 350gr. Hornady, or some premium at nose bleed speeds. It would appear that the level of satisfaction depends on what the shooter is after. Higher performance, or merely hunting hogs and deer. I've used the 45-70 from Buffalo, to elk, deer and hogs. Everything will go down with a mild 420gr. load. Are they superior??? Certainly not for flat trajectory. There is no one ideal load...

I think its molifying to realize that the 400gr. bullets going relatively slow will kill just as well as anything else. Must be a huge dissapointment to those of us that load the high pressure stuff. ;D

 

[lever addict]

My hardcast Beartooth 350gr Piledriver Lite with it's huge meplat going around 1700 fps is going to be my all around load. All I really hunt is deer, but it should without a problem take down anything on the planet!

If I was going for Grizzly well sure i'd go a little bigger ...maybe faster, but if I had an encounter with my Piledriver Lite load I would use it against a Grizzly with confidense!

Wind just ran a 350gr Laser Cast through I think it was 17 gallon jugs of water!!!!!!!!!

How do you like that for penetration! ;D

No mater how fast or heavy the slug...if you can run a .460 diameter slug end to end through a man eater...then what more do you need? ;D

 

[Coalsmoke]

I think that boils down to finding the best grizzly/moose load and shooting everything smaller than that with it.

From what I've read on here and elsewhere, that would be a bullet the size of a bumble bee and the hardness of a diamond moving slightly slower than 2000 fps. Just make sure your dental insurance is paid up before you try it. ;D

I'm glad we don't have grizzlies in Florida.

 

[MilPsych]

My vote would be the .300 Savage.

It has the poop to knock down most game while not knocking down the shooter.
It has been my choice for all round round since the big bruisers started giving me a severe headache.

Sincerely, JDP
Team 35 # 88 - Team 30-30 # 82 - Team 39 # 31

 

[findrichard]

The way I look at it is, the best would have to be the one that gets the job done in the most circumstances. Circumstances would include all game at all ranges. Given the limitations of the 45-70 that round would seem to be something like Buffalo Bore's 350 grain speer bullet cartridge producing a muzzle velocity of around 2100 fps from a guide gun. The bullet is big enough and tough enough to kill anything in north america and is moving about as fast as you can push 350 grains, which maximizes point blank range. However, what kills in the most situations may not feel like the best for the shooter. So it all depends on how you define best. For me, one not likely to encounter grizzly country, the 300 grain speer is big enough and tough enough for all I am likely to hunt and gives me the longest point blank range possible. There is not enough information about the sub-300 grain bullets for me to include them in consideration, so I don't.

 

[Kay9Cop]

I don't use hardcast, so my opinion only applies to standard bullets. The best all around bullet for North America has to work from the smallest to largest game, so it has to open easily on thin skinned animals and stay together on tougher big game. On the light end most people hunt deer and on the heavy end you have moose and brown bear. To me, that means it has to be a mid-weight partition-style bullet with an easy opening front nose but protected rear section. That means the bullet is a Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, or NorthFork. I'm using a 350 grain NorthFork because of the rings on the base, which seem to give lesser pressure than the A-Frame at the same velocity.

 

[M700]

Seabass - I'd hunt any big game in North America with my good old .30-06 and a 180 gr Nosler Partition loaded to 2700 - 2800 fps.

Accuracy is fine for 300 yards on deer size game, penetration is sufficient for bigger game too. Wouldn't be my ideal for either end of the spectrum, but plenty "good enough" for me. Have often thought that all my other rifles are just interesting niche rifles, and the '06 Dad started me with in 1966 is really all the rifle I've ever actually needed. He told me when I was a kid that all a hunter needed was a .22, a .30-06 and a good 12 gauge. I suspect he was right, although both of us have considerably more guns from which to choose.

Regards, Guy

 

[FRJ]

My go to gun for just about any hunting is a Browning A bolt stainless stalker in 3006 loaded with Barnes 180gr TSX bullets right at 2700fps. I've killed 7 roosevelts elk with it and all were one shot kills. Kills blacktail and muleys just as well.This year I'll probably be using my model 95 for blackbear with 405 gr rems. Wouldn't back down from a grizzly with either gun. Frank

 

[336ER]

I'm figuring that the OP meant the best load out of a 45-70 since it's in this area. That in mind, I also like a load like BB's 350gr @ 2145 (slightly better than a factory .450/350). I'd want an A-Frame bullet in mine.

For non 45-70 specific, I like the '06's larger & more powerful offspring, the .35 Whelen. I'd opt for a 200 or 225gr TSX at 2875(200) or 2800(225) respectively. The 200gr load will match or better typical 30/06/180gr loads trajectory-wise out to 400 yards.

 

[MattPair]

Out of the 45/70 give me a 405gr beartooth at about 1600-1700fps and I'm good for anything.

Other calibers- 180gr partition at around 2700fps out of a 30-06 seems pretty popular you could even step up to the 220gr loads for the big bears.

But for one load to do it all, the 45/70 really shines. Only restricition is the range at which you can take game with it.

 

[w5cds]

But for one load to do it all, the 45/70 really shines. Only restricition is the range at which you can take game with it.

To me, the restriction of range is not a factor, and I'll tell you why: if you can't get within 150yds or so of your game, either 1) you're not working hard enough, or 2) you're not thinking hard enough (picking routes, anticipating your target's movements, etc.). Within 150yds, a ~400gr cast bullet from a .45-70, traveling at anything from 1000fps to 2000fps, will take down anything that lives on the continent. It makes a large enough hole (in and, probably, out, as well) that expansion is not a factor. The shock of that much lead, traveling at those speeds, is enough to get the attention of any animal, anywhere. Unlike most African governments now, I think the .45-70 is enough gun for any animal living on our planet.

 

[Charlie-NY]

OK - here's my opinion just to be different. ;D

I've been shooting the Barnes 300gr TSX bullet lately. Currently using 48gr H4198 in a Starline case with a CCI BR2 primer. Velocity is 2,040 ft/sec. Recoil is moderate. Three shot groups run .7"-.9" at 100 yards. Five shot groups go about 1.25". Bullets typically expand to double their original diameter and weight retention is nearly 100%

Last week I was shooting this load at our club (100yd range) and noticed that there was quite a bit of broken rock sitting on the dirt berm. After firing 10 rounds I looked to see if any of the bullets could be found. I was in luck because 2 bullets were close to the surface. One bullet appears to have grazed a rock and expanded perfectly in the dirt. It weighed 296gr after the dirt was washed off. The second bullet clearly slammed directly into a rock. It was badly distorted and looked more like a squashed butterfly. The bullet base was the only part you could recognize. This bullet still weighed an amazing 295gr. These bullets just hold together!

Big game or large ferocious game, it seems as though the Barnes TSX bullet will provide an exceptional wound channel and should penetrate fairly deep with its proven 98%+ weight retention. The only thing deader than the game will be your budget when using the TSX's.

So.... that's my story.

 

[PAPI]

My two cents , ..for everything in " North America "... HMMM !

I would seriously consider this one!

NORTH FORK: Cup Point Solid

PAPI

 

[findrichard]

Looks like one tough bullet. I bet you pay a pretty penny for those green puppies.

 

[PAPI]

Well, the post stated " BEST " not the " CHEAPEST "..

HMMM..., Now lets consider:

1. Firearm(s) cost
2. Traveling expenses : Food / Gas / Accommodations
3. Hunting License Cost & Tags : Out of State Hunter ? $$$$
4. Field Equipment : Tents / Packs / Boots / Parka or Jacket , etc.
5. Guide ... ?
6. Taxidermist Cost : Hide or Mounts ?
7. Premium Loaded Ammo : Store bought or Handloads ?

The Premium Ammo " bullets/Loaded Cartridges ",.. might be the least expensive item on the list

I also considered what bullet(s) could be used in " All of North America ", which excluded " Lead Bullets " .. at least in portions of " CA Lead Free Areas " !

PAPI

 

[PAPI]

And, since were on the subject of " Premuim Bullets ".. I would also seriously consider another : Non -Conventional /Non-Lead Bullets ", currently being field tested on live game in " Africa "; Cutting Edge Bullets ..!

Just passing on some " Good & Factual " researched information !!
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/154

PAPI

 

[findrichard]

Great link, thanks for sharing.