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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys need so help from the experts.. Old Shotgun .. Hammers Firing Pin protrudes out... 12 ga marked on barrel.. also 18.2 is marked.. Barrels are 32 3/8 long.. Stamped Twist in middle between the barrels..

On each side of slight pistol grip is brass inserts .. Stamped Richard..

Number on action 6476..

Under forearm is a stamp looks like bowling pin.. wit crown on top.. inside is stamped E on top and L , G under the E....

any idea what it is , or if its worth something,, its worn but all origional.

Thanks..
 

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Those marks under the fore arm sound like possibly Liege, or F/N proof marks. I'd hafta get at my books to decipher them.

"Twist" likely designates Damascus twist barrels- I'd certainly hold off on shooting this one until a gunsmith can get a look.

The gun may be worth something if all the lock work is there and functional. Some pix would really help if you can get them up....

Could be possible someone had the gun personalized, although this is usually done with the owner's initials, rather than full name. Might be a W. Richard's import gun too...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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The 'pineapple' with LGE around it is definately a Belgian proof. I agree with Doc that it's a damascus gun & should not be fired. In the years following WW1, it was not uncommon for certain Euro gunmakers - mostly from Spain & Belgium - to mark their products in a way to dupe the unwary gun buyer. I recently was shown a W.C. Scott shotgun & was asked if it was one of the big money Brit guns. Unhappily, it was one of the Belgian bogus models.

That's not to say yours is for sure a bad apple, but I doubt very much it's a Westley Richards since it has the Belgian proof.

These do have value as decorators. Were you to advertise it on one of the gun auctions, you might be surprised what you get for it. Please do not fire it. SW
 

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Hogger-

I've seen these Belgian guns for cheap a few times- most often with lock parts removed to prevent them being shot with modern loads. Liege was certainly a big seller in those days relying mostly on their own name. I have heard of the underhanded doings that you mention, but have never seen an actual example. My some what faulty memory has W. Richards importing an economy line of shotguns for the brit "working class"- it might have been someone else too. Middle age can get cornfusing at times....

Gunjunkie-

I'll repeat it here- don't shoot this baby...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No problem on shooting,, its a buddys, he got if cause someone needed money and he bought it.. so just trying to find some info on it. .. it would need some TLC to make a hanger even.. like I said its all stock and never been touched.. looks like never taking care of.. I will grab some photos some time this week .. .. Every thing seems functional on it.. ..
 

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If the barrel is, indeed, of "twist" construction, it was not as high a quality as true damascus. Twist barrels used a single strap of steel wound around a mandrel, then welded (how, I don't know). Damascus used 3 or more straps all twisted together, like braiding high quality steel cable. I have one L.C. Smith that is twist, and you can obviously see the single strap construction. My other L.C.s with damascus barrels show the patterns of multiple straps twisted together to form an intricate pattern. Marlin offered damascus on their Grade D shotguns well into the 20th century. I have read articles in the Double Gun Journal by people who regularly shoot damascus guns. These are, of course, esoteric English guns like Purdey, H&H, etc. Also, the barrels are in immaculate condition and the owners use period-correct black powder ammunition.
 

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Gunjunkie,

Well, it will be interesting for you to clean it up. Several years ago, a retired veterinarian asked me to clean 'some old guns' in his attic so he could sell them. I said okay and discovered about 300 different firearms in his attic where they had lain for Lord knows how long. Many of them were old Damascus shotguns. The big problem I encountered was the soft steel of the screws. If the screws wouldn't budge, I simply left them alone.

It was quite a learning experience! The Belgian stuff had pretty soft screws while W.W. Greener had good steel. I didn't get too carried away and used hot, soapy water & a soft plastic dish washing brush for the grungy stocks. It got rid of the crud but did not harm the patina of the wood - made the beautiful grain visible in many cases. For crapped-up metal, I used the HOT soapy water gig and either lighter fluid or acetone for the caked-on crud.

One problem with the damascus or pattern welded metal is that if they start to corrode, it often attacks the seam roundsworth described above where the strap is welded together in a spiral pattern around a mandrel. This is what makes them so very dangerous to fire, and I have seen a couple examples that were shot, leaving what might be called a 'banana break'. I didn't want to sound too preachy about it as I know you to be an experienced gun nut, but they just flat come apart! :shock: It will make an interesting decorator, though.

In the course of the cleaning, I discovered some really odd pieces - like a G41M MAuser semi-auto. One of Razi Germany's failed attempts. Also a JAp rifle with a lot of symbols painted on it. He claimed it came from Truk, and I believe him as he also had a tanto ( short sword or long knife) from that place with a human femur as a handle. I asked how he knew it was human, & he just looked at me & said, "I'm a vet - I know this stuff!' I believe there was a lot he wasn't telling me.

He wanted to pay me for all the cleaning, but I told him I was happy just gaining the experience. He gave me a MArlin XX revolver with real pearl grips but would not sell me the Mauser or Jap.

Dang! I got to babbling on! Again! Please forgive me friends! :oops: SW
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Great Story for sure.. Thanks for the information on Cleaning....
Time to get ready to chase bambi's dad around... Later.
 

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Hogger-

Little gems like this make us who we are- no apologies necessary.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I figured if any one would know and be honest about it ,, this was the place to ask.. :lol:
 
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