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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

So, I have some 405gr “Cast Performance” WLNGC and some IMR 3031 & IMR 4198 and would like to make up some real “bear stoppers” (For bear defense, not hunting) for my Marlin 1895 45/70.

Anyone want to offer up some good recipes from their 1895's ?
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

Are you talking about New Jersey black bears, Northern New England black bears, Grizzly bears from the rockies, or the real big ones over by the
coast in Alaska, etc. ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

Yes to all !
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

I'm working on some "plinking" loads myself with some
Northeast Bullet 405 grn Lead WFN - aiming to get around 1200-1300
fps with IMR4198 and also experimenting with TrailBoss powder
at the Mach-1 level.

I don't have a load worked out for higher velocity with that
type of bullet, but I would wager that with IMR-4198 or H-322
(I just don't have experience with 3031) you could get those
bullets of yours up to 1600-1800 fps and that would take care
of any of our eastern black bears or moose. For big bears (more
than 600 pounds I consider big, cause I've only hunted black bear
in northern new england) I think you'll want to use some of those
heavy Buffalo Bore level loads, or roll your own.

This site has lots of experienced fellas who can offer advice, and
looking through older threads you can find gems and links to many reloading sites with more reloading info.

I'm not meaning to offend, but if you haven't reloaded for the 45-70
before, I'd check out some of the reloading manuals for "middle of
the road" loads to get some practice in before trying to stir up a higher
performance load. Reloading this cartridge is alot of fun, but
there is alot of info out there to wade through, and it can be confusing
- and dangerous - to mix up Marlin-level loads with loads intended
for a Ruger #1 or converted Mauser.

Enjoy !
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

That's one of the problems with the 45/70 listings. All the "on line" & printed loads list the 1895 from Trapdoor to Ruger pressures.
I've shot'em up to 38g of 4198 for 1500fps (37.0 best group so far), but IMR says I can go up to 44.0 (1788 fps). Or 53.0 of 3031 for 1779fps.

Got better (grouping) bullets for targets. Just wanted to work up a load that has been used (succesfully) on the big boys.
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

quickdtoo said:
Then you have the Realgun data that puts the 1895 and Ruger #1 loads together!!

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm
Yes, they are together because I felt no loads pressure tested at a level high enough to qualfied them for Ruger No. 1 use only. The only reason Ruger is noted is because of the velocity was recorded from a 22" barrel. I apologize for not being more clear.

There is always a lot of discussion regarding pressure limits and everyone seems to have their own opinion. To help you determine the usefulness of the loads on the site, I use a maximum cut off of approximately 38,000 PSI with an occassional 40,000 PSI.

I made a determination at the onset of posting 45-70 high pressure data that I would not list loads that were at a Ruger only pressure level. No matter how the caution is written, people will ignore the information and use them without proper assessment or work up.

Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

Ok, after two days testing 405 cast loads, this is what I've found with my 1895, 22" barrel
(besides the fact that It needs a recoil pad :( ).

.459 Laser Cast - 3031 @ 50gr

.458 Local store cast - 3031 @ 49gr (looks like LC, but with only 1 lube ring)

.459 Cast Performance - 4198 @ 36.5gr

All gets me around 3" at 75yds with a WW Ghost Ring.
Anyone want to take a stab at the velocities ?
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

This is all I can offer.............. other than suggest you invest in a chronograph, you can get a Shooting Chrony for $50-$60, about the best money you can spend on shooting equipment for a reloader, IMO...then there's no guessing. :wink:

Tim

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/4570govt.php
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

Hello Riflemen-I have quite a bit of experience with IMR3031 and 405 grain Reminton FPs. With copper plated bullets I found 53 grains of this powder in my reloads to be all I wanted! Meaning, I fairly well had reached all the velocity performance I felt safe with. I backed off a couple grains and things worked great. As jayco said the cast bullets perform better at different velocities than the Remington's do I believe. Life is good, BestLever
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

I'm gonna keep that in mind Riflemanz. for whenever Midway gets around to restocking those Rem 405's.

Any idea where I can get some load data on the 45/70 Remingtons (all the weights)? All the other bullet manufactures list loads for theirs, but can't find anything for the Remi's.
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

If you are looking for BEAR loads, then why would you not start with a 500 grain bullet and work up from there?
You need energy to break bones and tear up vital organs, maybe even brain shots for instant stops. I would use the heavest bullet I could safely load and shoot in the 45/70. Try and keep the velocity between 1000 and 1500 fps but closer to 1500.
Just my opinion.
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

My understanding of the consensus of the folks here, over the few months I've been reading, is that a 405 Rem is good for taking deer and smaller, un-agitated bear, say up to 400 lbs(?) or so, feeding happily and undisturbed.. My understanding is also that to stop a medium to large bear, that has decided that you are the cause of all it's current problems, and is offering you a frontal shot only at a short and rapidly closing range, the 405 might not be the bullet of choice.
I have not yet taken any game with my .45-70, this is just a synopsis of what I have read here. I am still playing with some Rem 405s for bear hunting, along with some cast, paper patched. A hunting bullet and a stopping bullet may have different requirements. Ask some Canooks and Alaskans. :wink:
 

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"Bear Stopper" loads for my 45/70

STARDATE2010 said:
If you are looking for BEAR loads, then why would you not start with a 500 grain bullet and work up from there?
You need energy to break bones and tear up vital organs, maybe even brain shots for instant stops. I would use the heavest bullet I could safely load and shoot in the 45/70. Try and keep the velocity between 1000 and 1500 fps but closer to 1500.
Just my opinion.
Not the case with some experienced people on Bears.Sourdough Ed prefers the 405 Kodiak bonded Core for Big Bears in his 45-70 and he Guides them also.Good read if you have the time.
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1532&magid=104
The there is Phil Shoemaker a Master Brown Bear Guide in Alaska who prefers Buffalo Bore 430 cast at 1930 fps in his 45-70 and Randy Garretts 420 Hammerhead at 1850 fps is claimed to shoot lengthwise through the largest coastal Brown Bear at 200 yards.The 45-70 with a 300 Nosler out penetrated the .375 H&H mag in a penetration test also using the 300 Nosler Partition in the .375 and we all no the .375 works dandy on big bears.

I would much prefer a 350 North Fork or Swift A-Frame or the 405 Kodiak at max velocities to stop a Bear but I only have had to do it to a Black Bear and the .270 with Nolsers stopped him in his tracks.

Jayco
 
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