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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have been shooting my 1895CB for a couple of months and it seemed the accuracy was steadily getting worse (mainly shooting Missouri Bullet .18 cast 300 gr RF .459 dia). I would usually start at 50 yards and then move the target back to 100 yds. In my last foray, I shot 3 days in a row and lazily did not clean the barrel. At the 100 yard line about half the shots were fliers some 18 inches from the a point of aim. At this point I suspected a dirty barrel was the suspect. In cleaning the barrel there was little to no leading, but I was astounded at the amount of carbon. It would appear that I was not doing good job with my previous cleanings as even with M-Pro bore gel., it took about 3 hours to get the barrel really clean. Afterwards I slugged the barrel at .456. What did catch my attention was the shallow depth of the rifling. As shown below, I used the same 300 gr bullet (.459) I usually shoot. I will be shooting later today to see if the cleaner bore will equal better accuracy. If so I will be spending more time cleaning the barrel..




Metal
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well as usual with this kind of problem, there was more than one cause; in this case, 2. First with barrel being cleaned there were no more fliers, but the groups were still around 10". I then noticed the front mounting screw of the Skinner Express sight had come loose and I could not find the Allen wrench that I keep in my range bag. So, I expect a better showing on my next trip to the range..

BTW, I also ordered some gas checked bullets to test for accuracy..
 

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I have been shooting my 1895CB for a couple of months and it seemed the accuracy was steadily getting worse (mainly shooting Missouri Bullet .18 cast 300 gr RF .459 dia). I would usually start at 50 yards and then move the target back to 100 yds. In my last foray, I shot 3 days in a row and lazily did not clean the barrel. At the 100 yard line about half the shots were fliers some 18 inches from the a point of aim. At this point I suspected a dirty barrel was the suspect. In cleaning the barrel there was little to no leading, but I was astounded at the amount of carbon. It would appear that I was not doing good job with my previous cleanings as even with M-Pro bore gel., it took about 3 hours to get the barrel really clean. Afterwards I slugged the barrel at .456. What did catch my attention was the shallow depth of the rifling. As shown below, I used the same 300 gr bullet (.459) I usually shoot. I will be shooting later today to see if the cleaner bore will equal better accuracy. If so I will be spending more time cleaning the barrel..




View attachment 724556
OSB,

Here are a a few observations from years of cast bullet shooting.
  • Flyers are an indicator of Case, Load, or bullet inconsistency.
  • Weigh the bullets. See if there is a wide weight variation, +/- 1 gr for a 300 gr bullets should be your expectation.
  • Base. If there is a bevel base, good for short range and not so much for longer distance. (remember, the fishing lure is designed to fool the fisherman, not the fish)
  • Barrel condition. You indicated no lead deposts and high carbon. Not outside of norms for low pressure loads and should not affect accuracy.
  • Seating depth: The bullet nose should show a small scribe of the lands for best accuracy.

You may want to try one of three options.
  1. If you want to shoot plane base cast, make your own. No bevel base designs, softer alloy, and softer lube. You control weigh and quality control like full base and groove fill.
  2. Move to a gas checked bullet as suggested earlier, with weight variance +/- 1 gr
  3. If you do not want to cast, try Xtreme or Berry's copper plated bullets. Note: No roll crimp, only light taper with this bullet design andstay under the recommended velocity.

Can you also provide the load data you are using, powder-primer-etc? Cast bullets perform best with lower to mid velocity ranges using faster burn rate powders. If you want high velocity and accuracy, jacketed bullets is your solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OSB,

Here are a a few observations from years of cast bullet shooting.
  • Flyers are an indicator of Case, Load, or bullet inconsistency.
  • Weigh the bullets. See if there is a wide weight variation, +/- 1 gr for a 300 gr bullets should be your expectation.
  • Base. If there is a bevel base, good for short range and not so much for longer distance. (remember, the fishing lure is designed to fool the fisherman, not the fish)
  • Barrel condition. You indicated no lead deposts and high carbon. Not outside of norms for low pressure loads and should not affect accuracy.
  • Seating depth: The bullet nose should show a small scribe of the lands for best accuracy.

You may want to try one of three options.
  1. If you want to shoot plane base cast, make your own. No bevel base designs, softer alloy, and softer lube. You control weigh and quality control like full base and groove fill.
  2. Move to a gas checked bullet as suggested earlier, with weight variance +/- 1 gr
  3. If you do not want to cast, try Xtreme or Berry's copper plated bullets. Note: No roll crimp, only light taper with this bullet design andstay under the recommended velocity.

Can you also provide the load data you are using, powder-primer-etc? Cast bullets perform best with lower to mid velocity ranges using faster burn rate powders. If you want high velocity and accuracy, jacketed bullets is your solution.
Wow that's quite a lot to digest. Thanks, it's always valuable to listen to experience. FYI, I have settled on a few loads all with Winchester primers; 46gr of H4895 and 37g of IMR-4198. The bullets are 300gr, Missouri Bullet Company, Brinell 18 and everyone I have weighed has been exactly 300gr.
 

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OSB,

Good to hear that Missiouri Bullets are high quality. Have you found the 4198 to perform the best of the two powders? Lead bullets usually like faster powders. Also, one other powder that has always performed well for me with cast bullets in the 45-70 is AA-5744.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, I finally got some good patterns at 100 yards; 3-5 inch with iron sights. I'm pretty sure the earlier problems was a result of not paying enough to the simple details of this rifle. So far the above pattern was with 46gr of H4895; I shot some of the 37g of IMR-4198 but not enough to really determine it's accuracy. I'll do that tomorrow. I have also bought some 325gr FN 45-70 Hand Cast Lead bullets with Hornady gas check from GT Bullets, so I will be able to see if the gas checks are more accurate.
 

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I have found that IMR4198 is what my rifle liked to digest with 405gr cast loads. I cast all my own bullets up to my 465gr. I also gas check all of mine. A little more money but a lot less cleaning. After I cast my bullets they are then weighed. If there is too much variation back in the pot they go to start the mold process again. I also use CCI primers and always double check the powder load and seating depth. Once you get all that figured out you should be able to get some fine accuracy out of your Marlin.
 
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