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From what I've been reading today, the Russians have new bodyarmour that stops 5.56/.223 bullets. I guess a few 45/70's will be needed to stop the new armour. Dave
Well if it don't penetrate it surly knock the crap out of them:biggrin:
 
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I think we still have a good answer in the army inventory already, the venerable M14 (30-.06 ) comes in a real powerful armor piercing and there are scads of them in armories. Just takes a little more muscle to carry around and a little better marksmen so that they don't need to carry so much ammo.
 

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I think we still have a good answer in the army inventory already, the venerable M14 (30-.06 ) comes in a real powerful armor piercing and there are scads of them in armories. Just takes a little more muscle to carry around and a little better marksmen so that they don't need to carry so much ammo.
M14 = 7.52 x 51 Nato aka .308 Winchester but still has more thump than 5.56.
 

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I wonder how many Russian is that new body armor a round from Ma Deuce would go through? :hmmmm:
 

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they could always modify the M-14 with a three round burst like the did the M-4 to minimize wasted ammo

and trade the M-249 SAW for the old M-60
 

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Who believes 5.56x45 is a knock-out round? In Viet Nam, it took 6-9 rounds to stop a determined attacker. You need a 30 round magazine to counter a typical home invasion. I believe the designated marksmen carry M-14s or AR-10s, both of which are 7.62x51 with over twice the penetration.

This is not to detract from a 45-70. A 7.62x51 round is stopped by 2" of ballistic Lexan. A 45-70 makes a 4" hole.
 

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they could always modify the M-14 with a three round burst like the did the M-4 to minimize wasted ammo

and trade the M-249 SAW for the old M-60
They don't need to do that as the M240B 7.62mm NATO MG replaced the M60 MG.
 
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I carried enough crap as a M60 MGer or a M-16 rifleman back in my day. No way am I gonna carry a 8-9 lb rifle with a combat ammo load that weighs 2 to 3 times what I used to carry. I would rather go with a reliable German G-3 in 7.62mm NATO.
 

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If The new Russian 6B43 armor is rated threat level III which is likely then 308 ball ammo might be enough. Then again it might be level IV armor and that will take something more powerful than 30-06AP. The 50BMG will do the job if we can get Barrett to make up 50,000 rifles we can go to town.
 

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the venerable 308 is an awful nasty round. I can shoot 1/4 plate steel at 350 yds with ball ammo and the hole in the steel is copper guilded.............the armor would have to be mighty tough to stop the 308 or for that matter the -06. My 45-70 leaves a very big dent at 350 yds but does not copper guild the hole..........
 

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Just for the fun of it, give some thought to what it would feel like to be on the receiving end of a 450gr bullet poking along at 1600fps, mid-chest!

A person might not care if the armor stopped the boolit or not.

Think the biggest horse you have ever seen, planting both hind feet center chest multiplied by about ten.

Kind of like when I did a face plant while knee boarding. Like my daughter said, it hurt so bad if it wasn't for the life jacket I wouldn't even bother to come back up!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Just for the fun of it, give some thought to what it would feel like to be on the receiving end of a 450gr bullet poking along at 1600fps, mid-chest!

A person might not care if the armor stopped the boolit or not.

Think the biggest horse you have ever seen, planting both hind feet center chest multiplied by about ten.

Kind of like when I did a face plant while knee boarding. Like my daughter said, it hurt so bad if it wasn't for the life jacket I wouldn't even bother to come back up!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
That's what I'm saying Coot! The .308 is fine and all, but I'm not so sure that a heavy loaded 45-70 wouldn't be a much worse proposition to be on the receiving end of......
 
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