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Well you are describing exactly what the 223 crowd denies. They are claiming it functions like any other hunting bullet. That is closer to being true than stories about 5.56 bullets doing damage by wild bullet path. It is true that a light bullet at HV will change path easier than a slower, heavier bullet. But the wild wounds are not the norm. There was a wives tale in RVn that AK ammo was designed to tumble because of a void between core and jacket. That was wives tale too. I’ve shot several hundred groundhogs with GI 5.56 and if you didn’t hit them in the head or spine they would head for hole. It had about same effect as running them through with a ice pick. The speed did cause a suction that if you gut shot an animal it would run off trailing intestines. I shoot 55gr bullets in 222, 223 & 220. The old GI 55gr was 3250fps, I don’t know what grain they are using now but it’s heavier. That means it’s going slower and is going to deflect less.

Are you shooting them with a nonexpanding 55gr FMJ? If so I’m not surprised at all that terminal performance was dismal.
 

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I have not bought any fmj or match bullets in decades, if I'm gonna load some ammo its gonna be with a bullet that was designed for hunting if they are not bullets I cast myself. even when there are huge discounts on blemished bullets I pass on the fmj stuff. I don't think going deer hunting with a 556 is ideal I'd rather head out with the 6.8 w 90 gr golds dots
 

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...77 grain TMK...
. . . was never designed to kill things.
It's literally nothing more than the 77 SMK w/ a resin tip)
It can/will both pencil itself through and/or blow up.
(I've experienced both w/ it's 30cal SMK big brother -- and quit using it.)

I would have no (ethical) problem using a 69-75gr soft point at nominal ranges/good placement
 

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I'm not going to beat the horse here, but anyone who thinks velocity doesn't matter in the type of wound received by ANY object needs to look again. I don't care if it's a round ball or an arrow.

I have a son-in-law in the military. We have discussed the .223/.556 over and over and over again. He and his men have seen action in 4 country's during our past war times. I trust his judgement.....and when his own men tell him they would rather be shot with a 7.62 than a .556 DUE to the deflection THEY SEE on the people they wound/kill.......well.... I will leave that, where it is as well. The idea is...massive wounding. This lets the soldier live while taking other fighting soldiers out of the battle to tend to the wounded men...basically: severely wound one guy takes out 2-3 guys in the process: the shot man, 1-2 others to carry off and tend to the shot man. This isn't arm chair internet BS.

For deer, the soft point is a better choice. However, if you watch the impact destruction from a .556 BALL AMMO through ballistics's gel, you will see that even though the hole left may be small, the damage around it is quite impressive.

Groundhogs....nothing but a blob of muscle. The only way to stop one with anything is to blow them up or hit the head or spine ....I have watched my own bullets deflect off the head of a groundhog....comparing one to a deer is just apples to oranges.

DR
 
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Anyone use a 5.56/.223 AR for deer. Concidering throwing mine in the mix for deer season just for fun. Not as a primary rifle but take it out a couple of times
The 5.56/.223 is considered adequate for a human, carrying equipment and clothing?
Provided you are using the correct round, and can accurately place it for a heart lung or head shot, logically, there is a high probability of success. You must be a hunter, get in close, to ensure correct shot placement. Be confident in your ability to shoot the firearm accurately.
People in these forums tend to look down on some rounds... like a .38-40 isn't good enough (even though it has taken everything required of it, for many years, and animals have not grown armour), like a .410 solid can't take a pig (proved it over and over). The round dictates the shot you have to take, how close you have to get, and what shots you must pass on. It is up to the hunter to do these things, which then makes hunting with that round ethical.
 

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Just remember the Army is no longer using M193 out of 1/12 twist or M885 Green Tip out of a 1/7. Ammo now used is the M885A1.


CD
 

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If this bullet fragments how does it pass for legal Geneva Conventions ammo? It seems the jacket is going to fragment in most hits even on soft tissue then penitrator and core separate. Sounds like it is a given. I have no experience with any military 5.56 other that original 55gr FMJ. / 3250fps.
 

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The statements about ground hogs, bullets bouncing off their heads, etc is the most ridiculous statements I’ve ever herd.

Not if you are using .22LR CCI Quiet rounds it isn't so ridiculous. These are all I use around the house. I've killed 3 groundhogs this year so far, and had one facing me that the bullet just deflected right across the top of his head. He sailed up in the air off his front feet, did a spin, and took off as fast as he could. TRUTH!

CCI Quiet this evening (05/26/2020) Makes 4! :smokin:

20200526_195737.jpg

DR
 
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If this bullet fragments how does it pass for legal Geneva Conventions ammo? It seems the jacket is going to fragment in most hits even on soft tissue then penitrator and core separate. Sounds like it is a given. I have no experience with any military 5.56 other that original 55gr FMJ. / 3250fps.
First not Geneva but the Hague Convention of 1899. Doesn't have exposed lead of restriction of the Hague and still considered full metal jacket in the Hague. M193 55 gr 5.56mm also fragments.


CD
 

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More actual experiences instead of opinions, ENJOY !
.https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/223-deer-bullet-factory-load.228374/

There is a thread on the 24hourcampfire where the 77 Sierra TMK comes up. If I could spin them that bullet appears to be a monster.
 

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Just finished an AR in 6.8 SPC a couple of weeks ago and have test fired it with Hornady 110 BTHPs, very accurate.

Tentative plans are to use a 100 grain Nosler Accubond, if it is suitably accurate/fast. Alternate selections are 110 Accubond and 100 grain GMX.

Rifle build is a WOA bbl (18" mid-gas), Vltor upper with the receiver face squared and barrel bedded, Full auto carrier with HP/MPI tested bolt, Seekins adjustable gas block, Sprinco Blue spring in the tube with an H1 buffer. Rise Armament Rave 140 trigger. MWI free float M-Lok handguard and Magpul furniture. Leupold VX-3i 2.5-8X36 CDS on a QD mount and some Magpul BUIS if'n ya wanta do it that way!

Soft-shooting and accurate! My hunting buddy is dying to use it and I just may let him, I kinda lean towards my .458 SOCOM.

But I do like the soft shooting characteristics of this rifle.
 

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17 3 kill.png 17 kill.png 17 4 kill.png about 100lb doe shot at a measures distance of 150yds with an AR chambered in a 17 remington. bullet was a 25gr. Hornaday hp with a full charge of 4320 from what I have read and heard from a lot of "experts" a round like that would simply bounce off, or cause superficial wound. in fact it blew 3 ribs apart going in, and did explode violently, but it turned the lungs into mush. I admit this sort of experiment is not for everyone. this doe went about 40 or 50yds in site of the stand. I have had them run a lot further with larger calibers,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
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