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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently picked one up, which came with several loads using IMR-4350, and I have since shot those up with mixed results. I'm thinking about trying a different powder or two, and was looking for suggestions. My first inclination is to try IMR-4831, I want high load density, but I want to keep pressures down, I think this gun has an oversized chamber, and I don't want to wear out the brass by beating it to death. I have a set of Lee Collet Dies on order to avoid full-length resizing, which should help. Fired brass comes out noticeably fat above the web, the old loads were warm but this looks excessive. Since I'm using all this brass in one rifle, neck-sizing sounds like a good idea.

Any favorite powders that give good (high) loading density?

Thanks in advance, folks, I LOVE this forum!

Papajohn
 

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IMR-4831 is tough to beat in the 25-06 in my opinion. I've loaded it a lot with 100g Balistic Tips, as well as several other bullet styles ranging from 100g to 120g.
 

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IMR 4350 has generally given the best results in my .25-06s and there have been about six of them. AA 3100 has done well in several with 115-120 grain bullets. It's about the same as IMR 4831. H 450 should work, but hasn't for me so far. Haven't gotten around to trying H 4350 or AA 4350.
 

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Just curious......could you help me understand the "oversized chamber" situation you've mentioned. Sounds almost like an ackley. How is the chamber oversized?

I love the 25-06 and will someday have one next to my .270 in the guncase. :wink:




Perferator
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Perf, I think the chamber is on the large side of the spec sheet, slightly larger than normal. The brass is bulged a bit ahead of the web. Not alarmingly, but noticeably. I don't think it will be a problem, once I get the Collet dies.

PJ
 

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Carefull here-I think you may have a 25-06 Ackley Improved chamber or something similar. One of the primary properties of the AI is removing the case taper. The other is changing the shoulder to about 40 degrees. The shoulder change is obvious when compared to a regular 25-06. the taper can slip by you.

If this is a 25-06AI or similar then handloading can be a bit touchy and needs to be reviewed. with today's powders these babies are very cool in my opinion. Just know what you have. You need to understand fire forming brass and a few things about expanding cases and such and reduced loads.

The 115-117 grain bullets really scream and are deer lazer beams. Have fun and let us know about that chamber. 4350's and 4831's are case filling and popular. Life is good, BestLever
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bestlever, this is NOT an Ackley chamber. It's just a tad on the large side, and I'm getting some case head expansion with hot loads. I may be new to the 25-06, but I'm not a complete idjit! :wink:

PJ
 

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sorry if I offended you sir. that was not my intention. It's just that a chamber with the taper mostly removed is easy to miss on an used rifle. Maybe not to you but to me it can be. I was thinking more about case diameter expansion rather than case length expansion. does the new cartridge actually rattle around in the chamber when you shake the rifle. I have seen and heard that before. I was thinking also about imr4320 being a possible good powder. I don't think it will fill the case as much as 4831 but it works very well in 06 size cases in some instances. 4064 is yet another. another side note unrelated to you or your rifle. A 25/06 case can expand past a 300 win. mag case diameter for the first inch above the head before the rest of the case separates and flies down the barrel with the bullet when the 25/06 cartridge is shot out of a 300 mag. I got the proof. Now that should be comforting to you when you look at how much expansion that is.

I see you are getting a lot of information. Pretty cool. what kind of rifle is it that you have? and does the Lee collet die just squeeze the neck down a bit? Like just a few thousandths on a side and not resize the rest of the cartridge. If that's the situation then I wouldn't worry about the little bit of one time expansion. but, what do I know anyways :? I hope you keep us up to date on your developement. Life is good, BestLever :lol: It's 2am and I got to get up for a drift boat trip at 3am. this is my explaination for the above nonsense.
 

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You dont think this could be the reason why the rifle was up for sale?

Not to make a big thing out of it, of course but how could this happen to a chamber? Factory anomaly or......?

Personally, I'd love an ackley quarter bore :wink:
 

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papajohn,

I don't presently have a 25-06 but I had one for awhile (which I gave to a nephew). It was simply a so-so Rem M78 30-06 which I had a take-off 25 screwed onto. The same rifle in a new caliber was a shooter and it did very well with both IMR 4350 and 4831 as well as the Hodgdon versions. I hade very excellent results accuracy-wise with the 100 Ballistic tip. I have had such good luck with Hodgdon's version(s) of 4831 that it is one of the places I try first when playing with a caliber liking a slower burn rate. I also like to go to Sierras accuracy loads when trying to save some time looking for accuracy. They seem to hit more often than miss with their suggestions. They say IMR 4350 was their best so you should get something worthwhile if not excellent. You might try another bullet too.
 

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There are tolerances in everything. .30-06 family brass is nominally .473 at the base, but most current American production runs close to .465. Chambers have to be at least .473 to take the largest brass it is likely to encounter. A new reamer will cut a slightly larger chamber than that as reamers are cut to take a sharpening or two before being discarded.
 

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:D Love the .25-06! This is my third and favorite, a Rem 700 CDL that I used to take this WA state mulie last October.



In my experience the .25-06 produces best results with relatively slow burning powders like Reloader 22, and H4831. I've had best results though (in this rifle) from H4350.

I use Winchester brass, H4350, Federal 210 match primers and 100 grain bullets, either Barnes or Sierra - depending on how much expansion I'm after. My pet loads have the Barnes moving at 3350 fps, and the Sierra 150 fps slower, at 3200 fps. Still, the Sierra expands violently, while the Barnes penetrates great.

All my loading for the .25-06 is done on a set of superb Wilson, in-line benchrest dies which size the neck only. That's all I've ever needed for that cartridge.

I've never had problems with the case over-expanding, but perhaps it is a problem with the chamber of your rifle. Might want to make a chamber cast, or have a gunsmith do it - to check the true dimensions of your chamber and compare them with specs.

Regards, Guy
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I managed to find a set of Lee Collet Dies for the 25-06, and bought a pound of IMR-4831 to try. I also bought a bullet-lapping kit, I impregnated ten bullets with the 220 grit and shot them yesterday, then cleaned the gun last night. Next is ten rounds with the 320 grit, then ten with the 600. The barrels is fouling-prone, this should help! I'll post more when I see how it shoots after all the WORK is done, and the real fun begins!

PJ
 

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How're the cases looking? Still too much expansion?

Measure for case-head expansion, and also check the primer pockets. If they go in too easily, there is a problem, and your cases are expanding too much.

I think that with a chamber as described, assuming it's not actually unsafe, that you are on the right track w/neck sizing the cases. Be aware though, that eventually the cases might expand too much to function properly. At that point it's simply time to discard them, or resize them in a full-length die.

I haven't hit that point with my neck-sized .25-06 cases yet - but have no more than three firings on each case so far. I did have to discard all the cases I had used in my previous .25-06, as they woudn't properly chamber in the new Remington. No big deal, I just started over with fresh Winchester brass.

Regards, Guy
 

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I love my 25-06, it has been a very accurate rifle with 100gr bullets. Many years ago when I was working up loads I settled on two powders that gave me velocity and accuracy Reloader 22 and Reloader 19, 3300fps and tack driving accuracy with 100gr sierras............Marko
 

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papajohn-I think that the Lee collet dies are great for reducing the workharning of the bulging brass. neck sizing is cool for me at least. but, if I hunt with neck sized cartridges I must cycle each one through the action before I go hunting because of the slow steady enlargment of the brass. The bench is much friendlier place to find a cartridge that is too large. I know you know that but some might have forgotten.

About the Lee collet die-I think they squeeze the neck down on a rod (mandrel) to form the proper inside neck size. Lee says this is near perfect and may be. but I wonder what a guy can do to adjust this should the need arise? I have heard that some modify the the collet to only squeeze part of the case neck. and, if different bullets require different restrictions then maybe Lee sells the mandrells so that you could put them in a lathe and grind them to different diameters. It seems that these are likely senerios if you use that 25/06 for all the things it's meant to blast. Just writing out thoughts and not questioning your abilities sir. Life is good, BestLever

I neck size a lot and no that the necks must be kept very much alike to avoid accuracy inconsistencies. I best git cuz I don't want you mad at me :wink: If I didn't say this before I really, really, like the 25/06!
 

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Starrbow - your loads sound like mine :D I use a Sierra SPBT 100 grainer for general purpose, and load it to 3200 fps. Pretty mild, but accurate and effective. For a heavier load, I keep the same bullet weight, but substitute the Barnes TSX 100 grainer, and up the powder a mite, getting 3350 fps. They are both accurate loads, and I guess I could make do with either, but I kind of like having the two different loads. Tend to spend most of the off-season, and predator hunting with the Sierras. Last fall I tried the Barnes TSX for the first time and they sure seem like a dandy hunting bullet.

Was real surprised, corresponding w/Barnes, that they recommend the .25-06 as fit for elk hunting with their X and TSX bullets... Penetration must be impressive. I hadn't really considered my .25-06 an elk rifle, seeing it as a deer and predator rifle. Nice to know though that they think it can handle bigger chores. Have spoken with several guys who've used the .25-06 on black bear and elk as well as deer, coyotes and varmints. Most everyone seems to like the cartridge. Shooting it sure puts a grin on my face and it's mighty easy to load as well.

Regards, Guy
 

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Hmmm, I'm thinking that my take on the Lee dies may be thought unimportant. Probably true as all I used was a RCBS die set when I had the 25/06 did I mention that the 117 Sierra Gamekings often failed on blacktail.
 

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You may think I'm tell'n a tall one but my 25-06 has a 100% one shot kill ratio on Antelope, Whitetail and Muledeer and we are talking about 20 or so animals. All with a cup and core bullet, that sierra is one accurate bullet in my quarter bore. It just goes to show any bullet placed right will work. I have a good friend that uses a 25-06 for elk and has for many years if my CRS isn't acting up I think he uses the Partition in 100gr.
My dad had a hunting partner that always used a 257 roberts and my knees can attest that he was very successful.

It would be hard for me to not have a 25-06!
I do use the neck dies and the Lee Factory Crimp Die with a very light crimp.
...................................................................................Marko
 

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Hello riflemen-Hunting elk with 100-120 grain bullets is fine on the plains I guess but unless you enjoy spending two days packing an elk up a canyon wall that took the elk 30 seconds to descend I would recommend a hard bullet through some shoulders. where the heck were you hunting these elk with the 257? Life is good, BestLever
 
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