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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

I have been a .358 mid bore fan for many years and have owned or own all of the .358 caliber rifles made with the exception of the 350 Remington Magnum. My current pet rifles are a Marlin 336C in .35 Remington and a Browning Lever Rifle in .358 Winchester. I have hand loaded and hunted for many years and there is an air of authority when a .358 rifle bullet whacks a hog, deer or what ever.
The BLR is off at the gun shop having the trigger re-worked, the shinny bluing changed to matte blue and the shinny stock being refinished to a closed pore oil finish, never did like a shinny gun for hunting.
Concerning the modern Marlins and possibly the older ones as well, I always thought they could easily handle higher pressures, especially the .35 Remington offering so I have been experimenting for awhile with varios loads and then I ran across this forum while searching the WEB for +P loads for the .35 Remington and boy am I glad I did. The load I had settled on was: Rem brass/39.5 H335/Fed. 215 Mag primer/Speer 180 gr. FP and it chronographs at 2230 FPS in my gun. However, I felt that I could push this bullet faster and then I found a member of this forum "35 Remington" that had shared his load development for the .35 Rem and I was in hog heaven. Thanks for your hard work and your willingness to share your loading data. I'm trying the: H4895 41.0 gr./Win brass/Speer 180 gr. FP load you posted and am using Fed. 210 Match primers. I am headed to the range Saturday to see how they group in my Marlin and then I'll chronograph them to determine their FPS in my rifle. I also agree with "35 Remington" that the optimum bullet for the .35 Rem may well be the Speer 180 grain Hot Core Flat Point.
I hope American hunters wake up to the fact that the .358 mid bore caliber is one of the best ever developed, but it seems manum mania continues to take its toll. I sure would hate to see the .35 Rem discontinued and .358 Win discontinued again, because they are excellent hunting cartridges, especially if a hand loader experiments with their true capabilities.
 

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Welcome aboard and you are right about all the work 35 Remington did and shared. There are a lot of good folks on here that have shared an awfull lot of knowledge on repairs, reloading, acquisition and a lot more. Hang around awhile and add your 2 cents.
 

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.358Man. Welcome aboard. Sure glad to see a kindred spirit regarding the .358 calibers. I'm not much of a fan of the .35 rem. as so far, the one I have won't shoot worth sour deer droppings. :roll: When it comes to the .358 Win. though, I have five of them. Two Ruger 77s, a Browning BLR (first model) 99 Savage, and a very recently Mauser actioned .358 by Kodiak. Kodiak was an outfit that bought up a lot of the milsurp mausers right after the Gun Control Act of 1968 and made a rather plain inexpensive sporter out of them. All the ones I've seen have maple stocks. I once had one in .243 Win. and it was an extremely accurate if homely rifle. Sorry I ever got rid of it. A friend had one in .308 Norma Mag., so when I spotted this one at a gun show about 6 months ago in .358, I snapped it up. So far, it hasn't been as accurate as I would like, but it's saddled with a typical two stage military trigger and I've never been able to shoot one of those well. I figure a Timney trigger and some judicious glass bedding will fix it up right nicely.
Going up the ladder, I also have three rifles in .35 Whelen. A Ruger 77, Remington 700 Classic and a very expensive custom Mauser.
About the only .358 I'm really not happy with is the Savage 99. What were they thinking when they decided to not put a recoil pad on the rifle? The gun is more accurate that one would expect from a Savage 99, but after three shots, well the bruise is there. :(
No .350 Rem. mag. or .358 Norma yet. :roll: Probably never will be. I don't need the power of the Norma and the .350 is just a Whelen wannabe. :lol:
Guess we're both 35 caliber loonies. 8)
Paul B.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hello Paul B & Sure-Shot,

I'm really glad I ran across this WEB site. From what I've read
it sure sounds like their are some good and knowledgeable folks
here.

Sure-Shot, If you are a hand loader you should be able to improve
the accuracy of your Marlin 35 Rem, at least that has been my
experience. Currently, mine is completely stock from the Marlin
factory, poor trigger pull and all. So far I have had some good
success with the excellent Speer Hot Core 180 grain flat point.
I can regularly shoot 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with
my 35 Rem using my hand loads, which is not too bad in my opinion
for a lever rear locking action.
I'm going to try "35Remington's" suggested load of (41.0 grains
H4895/Speer 180 grain bullet) tomorrow at the range. I will be
testing this load with Federal 210 match and Federal 215 magnum
primers to see which one groups the best. I've even seen my rifle
shoot 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with Buffalo Bore's 220 grain
offering, but those are pretty expensive loads. It has been my
experience that I get my best groups using the following procedure.
1) Cold clean barrel, shoot one fouling shot, let barrel cool.
2) Then shoot three shots for group.
3) Clean barrel and let it cool.
If I follow this process I can keep getting consistent groups,
but if I don't clean the barrel after 4 shots and don't let it
cool adequately then my group size always opens up. To be honest,
I'm not convinced that Marlin's micro grove rifling is the best
type of rifling for this cartridge, especially with high intensity
(+P) hand loads.

I'm using my 35 Rem on a hog hunt in March 05 that my son and I are
going on during Spring Break, but as soon as I get back it is being
sent off to be reworked. I've decided to use Clements Custom Guns
to rework my Marlin 35 Rem. I'm going to have the following items
performed.
1) Rework the trigger to remove the creep and set the
pull weight to 3 - 3 1/2 lb pull.
2) Have a 22 inch PAC-NOR match grade 6 grove 1:16 inch twist
barrel installed. I spoke with the folks at PAC-NOR Barrels and
they recommend that I stay with the 1:16 twist rate for this
cartridge.
3) Extend the magazine tube.

I have also owned a fine Remington 700 Classic 35 Whelen (1986
vintage), which I could kick my self for selling. It was the
most accurate rifle I ever owned or shot and an excellent elk
rifle, but I might be able to buy it back. However, my BLR .358
WIn is an excellent deer, hog, elk rifle too. I've not owned a
350 Rem Mag either and probably wont. I don't like a cartridge
that head spaces off of the belt instead of the shoulder,
to me its an accuarcy thing. Its good to see another .358 caliber
nut out there. When I get my 35 Rem back from Clements, probably
June/July 05 I'll let you know if the work I'm having done was
worth the cost. My gut tells me it will be, but the proof will be
determined at the range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
On my last post I addressed the 35 Rem comments to Sure-Shot instead of Paul B, sorry about that.

Paul B, If you have any hand loads worked up for your BLR .358 I would like to hear about them. I've currently got three I've been working with for my BLR, but wont be able to finish up the testing until I get my BLR .358 back from the custom shop.
 

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I haven't done much reloading for the .358 yet. A friend got a bunch of stuff from a neighbor's widow including 10 boxes of Winchester ammo marked 8.8x51MM. :?: Hid didn't know what it was for, and figured I could sell it at a gun show, so he sold thm to me for a dollar a box. :shock: 8) These were sealed boxes apparantly destined for overseas sales. Well, I opened one out of curiosity and the headstamps said, you guessed it, .358 Win. :eek: :D 8) Later, at a gun show, there was a fellow selling bulk brass and I bought up all his .358 Win. brass, roughly 500 plus rounds. Winchester had just dropped the .358 not too long before I found the brass. Price was reasonable, although I forget just what I gave for it.
One load that has shown promise is 44.0 gr. og IMR-3031 with the 200 gr. Hornady round nose. Another load marked ACC-2230, 48.6 gr. with the Hornady 200 gr. Spire point came with one of the Ruger 77s I bought. Normally, I don't shoot other peoples handloads, but I knew this fellow and he's always been a bit conservative with his reloads. Well, this one sure ain't conservative, chronographing almost 2600 FPS and is very accurate. I mght have to get some of that powder and try it myself.
On Sixgunner.com, there used to be a two part article by Paco Kelly on the .358 and another one part article on the .35 Whelen. Mr. Kelly believes in getting every ounce of energy out of his handloads. I did work up to his 250 gr. load in the .35 Whelen and it is a boomer. His favorite powder for both the .358 and .35 Whelen is H-335. I've only tried that powder with the 250 gr. Hornady round nose in the .358 and so far, it's been a flop.
I came into a large stash of the 150 gr. Remington Core-locks for the .350 Rem. mag. According to Kelly, you can break 3000 FPS with that bullet in the .358.
My .35 Rem. is a pre-Microgroove gun with a half magazine. It's been through the mill. For one thing, apparently a horse rolled on it and the holes for the scope mount were all torn up. Then, the guy used epoxy to hold the scope base in place. No scope on the gun, but an older Redfield peep sight. The front sight is so thin, you need a magnifying glass to see it. I got it to use as a cast bullet gun, but until I get something done about the sighting arrangement, It'll sit in the safe for a while. The big problem is I have a dozen shooting projects that are well ahead of working on that one. :roll: Too many projects and not enough money.
Regarding the 1 in 16" twist, I guess it would be OK for the .35 Rem., although I sometimes wonder if a 1 in14" twist might not be better if you want to experiment with heavier bullets?
That's one of the things that really got my goat. When Winchester brought out the .358, they used a 1 in 12" twist. So why did Ruger go to a 1 in 16" twist which will just barely stabilize a 250 gr. bullet? WEhen Howe designed the .35 Whelen, he and Whelen decided on the 1 in 12" twist. So why did Ruger and Remington use a 1 in 16" twist? It's OK for bullets up to 250 gr., but i shoot a lot of cast lead in my rifles, and my 280 gr. bullets won't stabilize in either the Ruger ot Remington. :x My custom Mauser has a 1 in 14" twist and will just barely stabilize the 280 gr. bullet.
FWIW, Paco Kelly's rifle has a 1 in 10" twist.
I've heard that Sixgunner has been down for a while for remodeling or something, but if you can get on, try and find those two articles in the .358 and .35 Whelen. Even if his loads scare you, as they do me, I think you'll find then interesting reads. I took the trouble to print them out, so if youcan't find them, E-mai; me and I'll make copies for you.
Paul B.
 

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.358Man
The .358 cal is my favorite. I have 2 BLR's in .358, one a new ltwgt and the other a BLR81, a rem7600 in .35 whelen, a rem.7600 carbine in .35 rem and a rugerM77 MKll in .350 rem. The 35's are very versatile but you need to handload. For the hunting I do the 35 rem is more then adequete, but my BLR81 is my favorite rifle for deer hunting. The load I use is 51 grns. of WW748 with a hornady 200 spire point. This gets me a av. of 2360 FPS with excellent accuracy. I know I could get more velocity but this load will do for my hunting. It's good to see people using the 358 cal, I don't know why it is not more popular. What kind of custom work are you having done to your BLR? Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Paul B,

It sounds like you have been successful in acquiring a pretty good stash of .358 Win brass.
So far I've got about 400 pieces of .358 Win brass stock piled myslef. It is my understanding
that this is a seasonal item and Winchester only makes it once a year. I would like to get up
around a 1000 pieces of brass for this caliber, that should last me quite awhile.

Currently it looks like Browning is the only firearm manufacturer still producing the
.358 Win rifle in their fine BLR offering and I hope this continues so Winchester will
keep making brass. My BLR .358 is one of the newer "Lightweight 81" models with a 1:12 twist.
I just checked the Browning North America WEB site and they are now offering the BLR .358 Win
in both the straight grip and pistol grip butt stock configuration. To my knowledge Browning
is the "only" firearm manufacturer currently offering the .358 Win and I sincerely hope that
continues so Winchester will continue producing brass.

Thanks for the load data you provided. Since my BLR has a 1:12 twist barrel I have been using
the Speer 220 grain Hot Core flat point and the Sierra GameKing 225 grain SBT and have been
seeing some good group sizes, but the Sierra produces the best groups of the two bullets so far.
I tried H335 powder and my gun will not shoot good groups using that powder. I have noted in
my testing that WIN 748 will produce decent groups with the Speer bullet and IMR 4895 will
produce better groups with the Sierra bullet. I have not had the opportunity to try the Nosler
225 grain partitions yet, but I will in time. Like you I have too many gun projects in the mill
and never enough time and some times money to get every thing done.

It sounds like your Marlin 35 Rem has seen better days. Hopefully when you have time to work that
project it will turn out to be a good shooter. As I've gotten older all of my guns are scoped, the
eyes are not as sharp as they used to be, ha. Concerning twist rates for the 35 Rem I'm going to
stick with the 1:16, because I want to shoot the 180 grain Speers in that particular gun. If I
need more bullet weight then I have the BLR .358 Win, however I have noted that Shilen currently
only makes a 1:14 twist for all of their .358 caliber barrels and I believe you are right, a 1:14
in the 35 Rem may be the ticket for the heavier and longer 220 grainers for optimum accuracy.

Concerning your comments on twist rates I think I may understand why the manufactures utilized
differing rates. Every thing I have read and from my own testing the faster twist rates allow
for better in flight stablization of the "heavier" bullets, which are also "longer" due to their
additional weight or mass. However, the velocity of the bullet also has a bearing on its in flight
stablization coupled with the twist rate. I believe Winchester chose a 1:12 twist rate because they
envisioned that the .358 Win needed the ability to properly stablize a 250 grain bullet, which at
that time was an excellent choice for the larger North American game such as elk and bear and it
still is, however, since the case capacity of the .358 Win is some what limited a very good
compromise is to use a 220 to 225 grain bullet in place of the 250 and still get good in flight
stablization and plenty of down range foot pounds when the bullet arrives on target.
I have not had the time to test the bullet expansion differences between the 225 grainers and
the 250 grainers in the .358 Win, but from what I have read the 225's will expand better
at long range as compared to the 250's. In fact, the Nosler reloading manual has a note that they
do not include 250 grain loads, because their 250 grain partitions require a specific velocity
for reliable expansion and the .358 will barely get there. I think Winchester wanted to originally
market their .358 Win as a great hard hitting heavy timber cartridge, which it truly is. I think
they offered the 200 grain silver tip loading as a faster and flatter shooting compromise for the
deer hunter. However, I have noted that my BLR with its 1:12 twist always groups better with the
bullets that are heavier and longer than the 180 to 200 grain offerings due to its twist rate.

The 35 Whelen, which I have a great respect for, took the .358 caliber to the next level of
performnace and that is why I think Howe/Whelen went with the 1:12 twist also. They wanted a
cartridge that was not only great in heavy timber, but one that had the reach and remaining
foot pounds of energy to whack an elk or bear at 300 + yards and that cartridge definitely
fills that bill using the 250 grain bullets. When I had my 35 Whelen I had developed a +P load
that would safely launch a Speer 250 grain Hot Core semi spitzer bullet at a chrongraphed velocity of
2650 FPS and that amounts to alot of down range energy.

I believe Ruger and Remington went with a 1:16 twist, because they knew this twist rate was more
optimum for the lighter and shorter bullets that could be shot at higher velocites that produce
flatter trajectories than what is possible with the 250 grainers. It boils down to the old
marketing hype that faster and flatter must be better. However, it has been my experience that longer
and heavier bullets penetrate better due to their sectional density than shorter lighter ones.
However, there are exceptions due to jacket thickness or how well the jacket is bonded to the
lead core and I believe "35Remington" shows this in his posted tests for the 35 Rem cartridge.

I'm also a fan of the .264 or 6.5MM caliber and most manufacturers that produce the .260 Remington
caliber rifle use a 1:9 twist, which is great for the 120 and 125 grain bullets. I can shoot little bitty
groups with either weight bullet, but if I go up in weight the bullet gets longer and harder to stablize
in flight and a 1:9 twist just will not stablize a 140 grain .264 caliber bullet that will allow me
to shoot 1/4 to 1/2 inch groups, instead I get 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch groups with the 140 grainers, so a
1:8 twist is much better for the 140 grain .264 caliber bullets if you want tighter groups and Ruger
manufactures their 260 Rem offering in a 1:8 twist rate. Remington and Kimber make their rifles with
a 1:9 twist rate.

Well, I've rambled on way too much. I'll take a look to see if I the information you mentioned is
still available on the WEB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Marlin Shooter,

Its great to see another .358 caliber fan speak up, !!!Go .358!!! You've got quite a collection! Concerning my BLR .358, for my tastes, its just too shinny so the following is what I'm having down:
1) Reblue all of the metal works to matte blue.
2) Strip off the shinny uretahne stock finish and refinish the wood to a
closed pore oil finish.
3) Trigger job - Remove creep and adjust to 3 1/2 to 4 lbs pull weight. I wanted a 3 lbs pull weight, but they said that was probably not possible.
4) Install sling swivels.

Mabe I'll have a digital camera before I get it back and I'll post a picture.
 

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You might try just rubbing that shiny finish with so fine (0000 grade) steel wool. Use a real light touch until you get the brightness (or lack of) level you want. Then finish off with a very small amount of oil on your hands and rub it on. I did this on a Reminton 700 BDL stock and it came out quite nice. It should look like a nice oil finish. If you don't like the way it comes out, then you can strip it down to bare wood and oil finish, but i think you'll like the results.
Paul B.
 

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*** .358 by Keith ***

---- Read a while back , in an article about Elmer K . --- that Elmer once said , for Elk , -- he'd rather have a .358 with 250 Gr. fodder , -- than any .30 Magnum with any wt. bullets .

That's a pretty good endorsement .

I've only got one weapon in the Cartridge , -- ( a Browning BLR with 20 " bbl. ( the old-full steel receiver Model ) -- Magnaported ) . ----- But I'm a big fan of the cartridge , nonetheless .

.358MAN , can't be all bad , -- because I too am a .264 fan for reaching way out on medium - Big Game .

I'm about to cook up some new .358 Loads around Swift ' s
280 Gr. .358 . ----- Anybody know if the Swifts , with their thick jackets , -- will yield decent expansion when pushed out of a 20" bbl. at the slow 280 grain bullet velocities ?? -- :?: :?: .

Guess PENETRATION should be pretty impressive .


---- Nose To The Trail , --- MMCOUGAR .
 

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Guess I not the only one with the 35 Rem and also the 358W

:D
Well I too have a older RC 35 Rem in the straight stock, ballard rifling version .
I reload the 180 speer with BLC2 ,and the RCBS 205 gr. Cast Gas checked with Varget. Rifle loves both loadings

I am very fond of the Marlin.

Well I had a 45/70 guide that was a disappointment so I started looking at something that would replace it. Needed more range and a big thump!

I ended up with a BLR in 358W This rifle is also a shooter. Factory rounds are a few dollars but reloads bring every thing in place. I am happy with the performance of the 358W so far. Just started the reloads for this one . 44 Gr.s of Varget gets the RCBS bullet on it's path . It is nice to be able to use some componets with two different guns. The 220 Speer shoot well with H4198. Praise be to God

Brass for the 358 is not an issue. You can resize 308 Brass with out any problems. Was not long to secure 200 rounds of used brass and size up as many 308 W brass to 358 W.

Now the 336/35 is for the deer hunts and the BLR is intended for the moose and some of the large black bears we have in these parts.
At the range they are both shot as equal.
Love the 35's

Now do not tell me you got a 6.5x55 too.
And a 1894 Marlin in 44 Mag?

So many fine guns and so little time.
:wink: Happy
 

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For me it's been love of 35 calibers (especially the Whelen and the 358) since the time a few years ago when my elk fell onto the ground before I could put the scope back on her! I had to contrast that with solid hits with my 280, an older Ruger 270, and a 30/06, all of which left me occasionally tracking deer and elk for a little way and sometimes spitting bone splinters out of an otherwise nice rack of ribs.

I've used the 35 Whelen in a Remingfton 700 for 3 elk and 2 black bear (one squared just over 7 feet) and have yet to recover a bullet! I use my dwindling stash of Reloder 12 and 250 grain Nosler Partitions on game, with the Hornady Spire Point 250 seated to the same OAL for practice. My 358 is a newer Ruger Hawkeye which is going meat-hunting ion October - the load I'll use is the Sierra 225 GameKing boattail in front of 48.3 grains of IMR 4320. I guess I'll find out how well that one holds together the hard way, but it zips right through coyotes without expanding.

bk
 

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Bearcat 74 said:
.35 Remington in a 1976 model 336 and a new Ruger Hawkeye in .358 Winchester for me. I really like the .35's, next up is a Whelen.
Man, you guys are a bad influence on someone who's saving up for a house... I went to my local gunstore a couple of months ago to enquire about a rifle for my wife, and noticed that they had a Hawkeye stainless in 358 Win on the rack. It was marked down to a good price... now I'm tempted to go there a see if it's still around ;)

PS How do you like your Hawkeye? Have you found any good loads for it?
 

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I have a 350 Ruger 77RS early 70's and a Remington Model 7 KS in 350 mag. I have a BLR 81 in 358 Win and a Ruger model 77R in 358 ww. I have a Model 7 KS in 35 Rem and assorted 35 Marlins. You might say I like 35 caliber rifles. I shoot IMR 4064 and 200 grain bullets in the 358's and WW 748 with 200 and 225 grain bullets in the 350's (or Whelan wantabees). The 350 mag is right with a 35 Whelan but in a short action which a lot of people like. Read what Chuck Hawks or Ken Waters say about the 350. The 35 Whelan is a grand old cartridge but it is not a bit more powerfull or any more accurate than a 350 rem mag. I doubt seriously if a deer could tell the difference. The only thing I will give the Whelan is you dont have to seat the 250's as deep. Don't get me wrong because I think the Whelan and the 350 are two fine 35's.
 

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Wow, I was wondering who in the world dug up this old thread. I thought it might have been JL in disguise! ;D
 

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It is a lot cheaper to make your .35 Whalen brass out of .30-06, .25-06, .270, or .280 brass than it is to buy .350 Rem. Mag. brass. And yes if you want to do it right get a .350 with a LONG action then have it rechambered to the .358 Norma magnum which you can load down all the way to .38 Special velocities on up !

Hipshot

P.S. I own a .357 mag. Rossi M92, a Marlin 336 .35 Rem. and a custom .358 Win.------------Which one do I like best------ALL OF THEM !
 

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My caliber is better than yours NO my caliber is better than yours. I forgot to add that the 35 Whelan is cheaper to operate than the 350 mag so I guess I will have to get a whelan.

Horseshoe
 
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