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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is a heeled bullet which can be hand-started into the case without mouth expanding sized brass. It can also be hand-lubed, by wiping cup grease on the shank with the fingers, then the bullet seated against its stop surface by pushing the nose against a table edge. I carefully roll crimp using my regular Lee seater, NOT the factory crimp die, and the nose flange is cold-formed to match the die interior, forming a .435-.440" diameter driving band .060 wide above the crimp groove. When loaded in Starline brass neck diameter is .443". The cold-formed nose band does not impinge against the rifling, but seals the forcing cone in oversized or worn barrels. Rounds chamber and extract without marking from my Microgroove Marlin 1894S. I'm just letting people know this design is out there if you have a tight-necked chamber which otherwise precludes loading larger diameter bullets. This may be an option. 30wcf had promising initial results with it. I'm shooting some in my new rifle this week.

43-200Q-D.png 44-40shot 014.JPG
 

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Ed,
Welcome to Marlin Owners! Very glad to have you here.:biggrin: Your years of experience in the firearms / shooting / cast bullet arenas will be very beneficial to us.

Thank you for the samples of your unique heeled bullet for the .44-40.

Last week I tried them in my oversized '73 (.436" groove aft / .4335" groove (muzzle) and they worked pretty well pushed by 6.2 grs. / Titegroup.:biggrin: The groove sized nose diameter sealed the bore nicely and the rear .427" diameter was a snug fit in the .425" bore. As time permits, I'll try some with 4227 in the '73 ......

I now have some loaded for the Marlin and hope to get to the range later this week. I would like to test at 50 yards and 100, but, unfortunately, the rifle range is closed for updating for probably at least another month, so I will have to try them at 25 yards.

In addition to standard use, I see Ed's bullet design as another option for oversized barrels, even when the chamber is not large enough to accept a cartridge with a bullet of the proper diameter to fit the barrel. :biggrin:

w30wcf
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
:congrats:
Tom at Accurate Molds and I discussed this one a bit, and filling the worn or oversized bores, despite tight-necked chambers was the design intent. The Ruger .44-40 Vaquero was the original stimulus, but I decided against that purchase, having gotten the Marlin instead.

Initial trials with the 1894S with undersized .427 bullets which didn't fit, and which were too hard, were mostly to fire-form cases. The open sights which came on the gun had to be raised to the stop elevator step to zero at 100 yards, and the sight moved slightly to correct windage. Given my 66-year-old eyes, open sights, and imperfect ammunition, I considered the 1-1/2" groups at 25 yards acceptable for the circumstances. I expect to do better with 10 BHN alloy, 43-200Q with soft grease and about 6 grains of Bullseye to start with. I'll increase the Bullseye as accuracy indicates, but probably not exceed about 7 grs. Will also experiment in the range of 15-16 grs. of #2400. Next time.

FYI my Marlin 1894S slugs .430" groove and has 12-groove Microgroove rifling in 1:36" twist. The chamber neck accepts a .446" cartridge neck without resistance, which means I can load up to a .431" bullet in Starline brass. So, life is good! An XS ghost ring peep is on the way from Brownell's to replace the factory open semi-buckhorn rear, which will be saved for posterity, but not actual use.
 
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This could be the bullet of all bullets!!! I have one revolver with finicky chambers. I am going to have to read the few posts again to engrave those numbers in my head though....

I just do not see how this bullet can get pushed back into the case from a fully loaded 73" magazine!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am going to send more, cast.from WW to 30 wcf, enough to share with you, or PM me with your address and I.
'll send you some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This could be the bullet of all bullets!!! I have one revolver with finicky chambers. I am going to have to read the few posts again to engrave those numbers in my head though....

I just do not see how this bullet can get pushed back into the case from a fully loaded 73" magazine!!!
That is the design intent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
:biggrin:
A have a CARE package in the form of a SFRB ready to go your way if they will still let the Yankee cavalry make deliveries in your part of the state.
I understand some 150 years ago that ill mannered Sherman disgraced himself in passing through and that your neighbors have long memories...
 

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Had a chance to get to the range this afternoon. Below are the two targets I fired with Ed's 43-200Q bullet.
Brass was Magtech.

The RCBS die reduced the forward diameter to .431" in the crimping process.
The velocities were taken previously with another 200 gr cast bullet so should be pretty close.



Shot number 5 opened the first group to 1.30"..... that could have been me.....

Looking good so far .....

w30wcf
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You guys both have bullets boxes on the way by Yankee Cavalry. Let me know when you get them.

I measured the lifter on my 1894S last night and confirmed with dummies that it will feed rounds from the magazine up to 1.70" overall.

Same as the length of the Ruger Super Blackhawk cylinder... Hmmm I need to get that .44-40 / Mag. switch cylinder revolver project going again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Package has arrived...however....messenger did not survive :)
Appologize for the bullet quality. The last heat of salvaged ww we rendered into ingots got some slight zinc contamination because trainee working the melt lets his attention drift from the thermometer and a few zinc ww started to melt before we caught it. Double fluxed and skimmed before pouring ingots, then double-fluxed and skimmed again when casting bullets, but still got some surface "dirt" appearance, on bullets which are well filled out and seem to weigh ok. So far they seem to shoot OK, just don't look pretty.

John got more of the same heat.
 

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I shot one round off into the gel this morning. No expansion what so ever but it did travel almost 32" into the gel. Chronograph only showed 650fps. It is HOT outside so I decided to call it off, dissect the three others and double check the powder charge at a later time.
 

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I was able to shoot 5 shots @ 25 yards with my Marlin. I had some crimping problems and finally had to run the bullets through the 429 resizer. It was as if the crimping die was riding on the .440 driving band trying to damage it. So the driving band was reduced to .429. Eventually I used my Lyman 310 hand tool with fun which is really why I wanted to try these with the healed feature.

The first two shots were great but the last three dropped low right. I am sure this was something I must have done and not the rifles fault. Velocities were up and down too but again, probably my poor handloading skills. Oh these were the alox lubed bullets. Thunderstorm drove me inside so I will try more in the morning.

43-200Q.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The concept of the oversized nose flange is for the seater die to cold-form it as the case mouth is crimped, forming a narrow driving band conforming to the die interior.

Try hand seating one in an sized case without expanding, pushing it in until it stops, against a table edge and see if it it chambers in your rifle, and if the dummy de-bullets upon extraction.

Usually .44-40 chambers are long enough, there is enough clearance at the forcing cone angle that the bullet will enter with only light marking.
 

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Oh, I see what I was doing now. I did hand seat the bullet but as I tried to roll crimp the over sized bullet the die was hitting the over sized flange. As I saw this I thought don't force it.

So I will do it anyway...lol
 
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