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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been wanting a long range black powder cartridge rifle for awhile, probably a 45-110 or 45-120. I have seen where people have cut new chambers in the buffalo classic. My concern is about recoil, every NEF/H&R I have fired has had a lot of felt recoil for the rounds they are chambered in. I shoot some heavy recoiling guns, 1895g with +p loads, cz 550 in 375 H&H, regularly, and have shot several 50bmg rifles, and a 416 rigby, so I am no stranger to recoil. My point being, I have a H&R topper deluxe, and it's recoil with 3½ inch turkey loads is insanely stupid. I can run a box of H&H or 45-70 +p rapid fire, no pain. 1 3½ turkey load and my vision blacks out for a second, I get staggered, my shoulder bruises, and it hurts for the better part of a week. Obviously mynfear is that the recoil of a buffalo classic in 45-110 will be so much that I rarely shoot it.

I am not tied to the historic or cowboy style, so would have no problem restocking it with a good recoil pad, or even putting a mercury reducer in the butt. I have thought about that for the topper deluxe as well.

I was thinking about shooting H&R an email and seeing if I could negotiate having a buffalo classic barrel fitted to my topper deluxe. I don't know a lot about the accessory barrel program. I know the BC barrel is not an offering there, or even if the topper deluxe receiver is a candidate for the BC barrel.

My biggest question is whether or not I may be better off saving up for one of the sharps reproductions, or going with another platform altogether.

I'm open to ideas, an like I said, I have no attachment to the nostalgic. I have been reloading and shooting bp cartridges and shotshells for a few years in my 1895G (w/ scout scope), ruger vaquero, a bond arms derringer, and the topper deluxe, most of which have had modernizing done.

My only real requirements are the cartridge of at least 45-110, and the capacity for long range iron sights. It may even get a micro red dot for when I am hunting a hay pasture and something sneaks in close.
 

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El Kabong
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My 45/70 Buff kicks like a freakin mule. With the comb of the stock, I have delayed installing a Limb Saver.
Since resigning it to holy black only, It is tame enough for me.

Using the "kill anything that walks on the planet" rounds thru it, is beyond hurt.
(modern powder and cast boolit)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It would be black powder only, but as a 45-110, I'm sure the recoil in the BC would be more than I am looking for.

Guess I'm going to investigate other options.
 

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Trekker, as you probably know the 45-90/100/110/120 were all designed as super buffalo guns in the black powder era. If you want those power ranges with black powder those are what you'll have to use. If you don't mind smokeless powder you can achieve pretty much the same performance with the 45-70. A Ruger #1 in 45-70 might be just the ticket for those heavy hitting loads.
 

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I put a leather lace on recoil pad on my Buff Classic. I also filled a 3/4" copper pipe with lead to fill the hole in the stock. I wouldn't want to carry the thing far but recoil is tamed . I have not found a way to shoot lead in it. It is good for around 20 shots with even light loads before leading severe. No problem with jacketed stuff though. On the fence whether to have it barreled or just give up on it.
 

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I've had a 45-120 Buffalo Classic for many years, I've shot 530gr cast bullets at 1800fps with no problems using H4895 and A5744, I just added weight to the stock bolt hole and wore a PAST shoulder pad for bench work. I also have a 50-140 Buffalo Classic, I put it in a set of laminate stocks with a Decelerator pad on it and have only shot it from the lead sled with smokeless powder under a 570gr Hornady DGS @ a little over 2200fps, so the 45-120 loads are cat sneeze loads in comparison! Weight in a heavier stock with a good pad and you should be good to go with a 45-110. H&R will only fit rifle barrels other than 357 and 44 mags to SB2 rifle frames made 2000 and later, they won't fit them to your SB1 TDC frame, although you could fit a 45-70 barrel to it yourself and keep the pressure in the trapdoor range which would be what you're wanting to do with BP loads. The BC barrel is still available as an accessory barrel if you can't find an SB2 frame to get it fitted to, lots of em sold on GBO. Rechambering a 45-70 to 45-90,100,110,120 is real easy by hand, several members have done so on GBO, reamers are available for rent from 4D and Elk Ridge. The scoped BC below belongs to Stuffit, it's in a GSI walnut rollover stock.

Tim

H&R 1871 - Barrel Accessory Program
 

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El Kabong
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Forgot to mention, I filled the stock with 14 405 RN PB boolits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have run the gambit of +p smokeless 45-70 loads in my 1895g, but have had a recent addiction to BP the past couple years. I still shoot smokeless, but have been running mostly BP in every suitable gun i have, and lately have been wanting a "reach out smack the hell out of it" black powder cartridge gun.

The ruger #1 is an idea, I would still ream it to the larger case and use bp though, and would then be in the $ territory of a sharps replica.

I fired a 45-110 sharps once and the recoil wasn't bad, but they could have been reduced powder loads, and I don't know the bullet weight. I wouldn't want to be behind it on the bench for long, but I don't like being behind my 375 H&H on the bench for long either.

My looking at the BC was mainly a cost thing. Getting another receiver, or just buying a BC, isn't that much of a hurdle. Reaming the chamber myself isn't either. I just know the NEF/h&r have increased felt recoil over other rifles firing the same cartridge. My topper deluxe firing 2 ¾" birdshot recoils More than my winchester single shot with the same shells, the 308 hand I rifle my friend has recoils more than any other 308 I've shot. My topper came with a ¾" steel bar in the butt.

Where would a BC 45-110-405 with no modifications fall in the recoil spectrum, compared to like an 1895g with near max marlin 45-70 smokeless loads?
 

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Your H&R is a good hunting and casual target rifle but is not up to the long range game. With the necessarily heavy bullets needed to carrythe distance, recoil is brutal; old time bullalo and target rifles were heavy (12-20 lbs) for a reason. Appropriate sights are difficult to install and the cost of sight and installation will be more than the cost of the gun and will not return commensurate results. You can find a Pedersolli Sharps ready to go for a thousand dollars and be money and satisfaction way ahead.
 

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The BC wouldn't be my first choice for long range competition, but it's certainly up to the task for economical fun, it's been done before with modest investment in sights, even the $80 Williams FP-TK is good for 600yds with a short front sight like the .404" tall 17A Lyman. A good vernier will cost near near what a used BC will cost and can be mounted either with a false tang or the method mentioned by John Boy in the second link. You can calculate recoil easily with the recoil calculator link.

Tim

Will the H&R Buffalo Classic Shoot 1000 Yards? Yep!

Buffalo Classic Tang Sight

[url]http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

[/URL]
 
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