[scott fisher]

Just picked up a used 450 with only 20 rounds shot threw it. Gun came with 50 new cases and the 20 onced fired cases. Bought somes barnes 300 grain copper bullets. Anybody use these bullets for reloads. Any info would be great. Thanks.

Scott

 

[USA-ONE]

It would be a good idea to purchase a new reloading manual. 4198 is a powder I have used with good results along with the 350 Hornady bullet. ;D

 

[scott fisher]

Ive got the barnes manual and have most of the powders they recommend. Just wanted some info if anybody had loaded this bullet and what kind of performance I could expect. Have to use copper out here in CA.

 

[1895Gunner]

Hey Scott, sorry no help here - just recently picked up a ported 450 myself. I have bought the Hornady 350gr FN interlock boolits but haven't loaded any yet. I expect to start in about a month so I'll be watching your thread.

I reload the 45/70 with the 300gr Remington JHP and it shoots great. Have loaded a ton of them, you may want to try them - lot cheaper than the Barnes 300gr fp. I'll probably try them in the 450 also.

Good luck,

 

[1895Gunner]

Sorry missed your second post about copper only. : Makes my first reply useless.....

 

[USA-ONE]

It must be a nightmare to live in a state where fools rule supreme. Too bad, the 350 is a fine bullet as is the 400 grain speer. ;D

 

[Armymark]

Just picked up a used 450 with only 20 rounds shot threw it. Gun came with 50 new cases and the 20 onced fired cases. Bought somes barnes 300 grain copper bullets. Anybody use these bullets for reloads. Any info would be great. Thanks.

Scott

I assume that your talking about the Barnes 300 gn TSX FN, what do you want to know? I've never killed anything with it.

 

[scott fisher]

Ya the 300 tsx fn. What podwer, velocity, accuracy, whatever info you have lay it on me. I was hopping to get some info on what type of game people have killed with it. I'll be using it for pigs up close and maby elk.

 

[kenatbend]

I bought a new 450 XMLR last year and have reloaded and shot hundreds of different rounds with it. I bought it with ten boxes of shells, 7 were 350 fp and the rest are 325 FTX and I decided to keep most of the factory stuff in the box so maybe this is not the way one should go after brass but I live in Winnemucca, NV and we have one of the best shooting ranges I have seen over the 50 years of shooting, but one can pick up belted mag brass most every time you go to the range. I have used 7mm mag, 284 win mag, 300 win mag, 300 H&H mag, 338 win mag for 450 brass. It's quite simple but cutting off the neck and trimming the case then running them thru my dies I have found a free source of brass, now granted the other cases do seat a little deeper when chambered vs factory brass so given that I have had to pull the hammer back twice to get it to fire, but that has been once with about five boxes of my home made 450 stuff....now I don't shoot any other mag's and I am aware that this could chamber in guns not intended for so I am careful with it but it's just plinkers for me. I have loaded 300 gr. HP, 350 fnsp, 325 ftx and 400 gr speer fp using H-322 or H-1895, I din't know how many other have done this but it works for me.

 

[USA-ONE]

I have had good results with H4198 but want to try N130. I heard it was what Hornady used in the factory 350 grain loads. ;D

 

[450 Sniper]

kenatbend - I think your playing with fire, due to increasing your headspace. I might do that in a survival situation, but ONLY in a survival 'do or die' situation.
The 450 Marlin headspaces off of the belt.

It's only a couple of thousandths, but every time you pull the trigger that case head is slamming into the bolt face. The actions are pretty strong, but your pounding the lock up piece. The dynamics are a lot different than if it is pressed up against it when you fire the gun. Then it 'pushes' against the bolt face and lock up piece. With the additional space it is literally 'slamming' into the bolt face.

Repeated firing is going to break it eventually - especially with full house loads.

Thanks for the info - it's nice to know it can be done (although I don't recommend it).

I sure would be careful.

 

[NFG]

I totally agree with 450Sniper, and he tells you WHY it isn't smart to do what you're doing...you are asking for a hole in the ground or something worse...living after you're lobotomized.

The belt length/headspace for a belted mag is 0.220" and for the 450 Marlin it's 0.280"...that's 0.060"...no wonder you have to hit it twice some times for it to fire. WHY do you think Marlin put that wide belt on the 450 case...to hopefully STOP or KEEP FROM HAPPENING what you are doing.

Unfortunately people never quite understand what they DON'T know about a lot of things.

The only fairly safe way to do what you're doing is to find WHERE the end of the chamber is, measure it then trim so the cases headspace on the MOUTH of the case NOT THE BELT, and to be safer you CAN'T crimp at all.

Even then this would be for emergency situations ONLY and I can't think of any that wouldn't have a MUCH better solution than using belted mag cases picked up at a range.

IF YOU WANT TO USE BELTED MAG CASE JUST RECHAMBER TO 458 AMERICAN...IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME BALLISTICALLY AS A 450 MARLIN.

I've been at this game over half a century, built many wildcats and other rifles and seen several actions come apart. I KNOW what I can and cant' do and what I can get away with...and I GUARANTEE if I thought doing what you're doing could be done in a safe manor I WOULD HAVE DONE IT the minute Marlin came out with the 450 and so would a lot of others...BUT guess what...I wouldn't do what you're doing...NO WAY, NO HOW..for ANY amount of money.

I definitely NOT sorry for being blunt...YOUR azz is hanging WAY out there and you need to get your head screwed on right.

LUCK...you need it.

 

[scott fisher]

I definitely NOT sorry for being blunt...YOUR azz is hanging WAY out there and you need to get your head screwed on right.

LUCK...you need it.
[/quote]

Way to be honest, I like that. Just because you can do something doent mean you should. I think I'll stick with regular brass. Wasnt really asking about brass anyways.

 

[NFG]

Sorry Scott...I meant Kenatbend...your name stuck because you were first poster. :-[ You know how us Alz-heimers get. ;D

There are many ways to come up with a "multi-case" shooter...I can even shoot 45-70 and 45-90 rounds in my 458 American just because of the idiosyncracies of the SMLE action and a 45-70 could be rechambered to 458 American and shoot BOTH cases safely...but it's one of those "why" propositions. It can be done but only a few would want to.

You're right about "just because you CAN, doesn't mean you should" speaking of most people and applications.

LUCK

 

[kenatbend]

Like the feed back, and I know what you all are saying but I also have reloaded for decades and the cases show no signs of excess pressure even with full to plus loads and personally I am quite comfortable shooting them. There is a .035 difference in a std. belted case and a 450 case so one can argue the case slams back into the action but again the is no sign of this and that would show at some degree due to the soft nature of brass, I have more of a problem of someone putting the round in a 7mm or anything else as the results would be bad, but I am only a machinest/part time gun smith and have taken my 450 apart, every part in the bolt to to get the trigger pull down to a reasonable 4-5 pound but thats another story...bottom line is this works for me and I understand how some people are looking at safety and would not consider what I do to be not safe but I have always worked outside the box and would not go past any limmits I have set for myself.

 

[chopaz]

All this sounds misleading and scary for someone who is new to reloading. I am not saying that someone in particular is wrong but when I first read the post on using alternate brass I thought hey I have another venue for brass. Since I did not know any better I would have followed through with this in the future. Apon furhter reading the posts I learn other points of view on the possible dangers that I would not have thought of and I am glad to have been cautioned by other posters and thank you for this.
I will be sticking with factory brass as I have a good start with 80 rounds of factory ammo and 40 once fired brass and will keep accumilating brass as it becomes available.

 

[scott fisher]

Just ordered 100 empty case from a1huntingsupply.com. They have 100 cases left sombody should buy them.

 

[NFG]

Tell me how you came up with 0.035" difference in headspace, Kenatbend...I don't have any 450 Marlin cases to measure and all the reference material I have states the 450 Marlin belt is 0.280" from the end of the case. All my belted mag cases measure approx 0.210" to 0.225"...that's using a case gauge I made and a depth mic. To me that says somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.060" difference in headspace more or less depending on the amount of tolerance in the chamber.

You and I might know how the cow ate the carrot, but anyone new to the game or with limited experience is liable to get totally F.U. reading what you did and thinking they can do the same.

To my way of thinking it is totally irresponsible to put that kind of information out on the net and then defend it...what you are doing is dangerous and there is no way getting around that. You're basically setting up a all the conditions for a case head seperation and the Marlin ISN'T a rifle you want a case head to come off in. All it takes is a combination of inexperience, a slight mixup in powder type or brand, Murphys Law and the results can be a ruined weapon OR person.

If you want to be......then go ahead and keep doing what your doing, it's YOUR choice and you sound like you are well over 21, but your basically saying to anyone reading your post...GO ahead and play on the freeway. You're defending a very bad action and not caring what the HE** happens to your fellow shooters.

The one BAD thing about the internet is no one has to pay for their actions if someone else gets hurt doing what they read.

 

[kenatbend]

OK I was not talking about head space, only the belt and if you do your home work you would already know that Hornaday made the case belt .035 wider so the 450 would not chamber into other mags.....
Now then, I am friends with a few gunsmiths and know many and we have talked the matter over and the 450 can handle shooting the cases I rebuild. I know there will be some who would might not agree but I'll stick with people who have loaded and shot guns for fourty years plus.

The reason I wrote on this site in the first place was many seem to be worried about no brass and there is a way.....also I don't use my 450 for shooting paper, my little 22-250 is for paper at the range, I shoot at steel from 100'-400' with a red dot sight, granted 400 yds with that type of sight on a 450 is about the same as throwing rocks but I enjoy it. Also I have shot 40 rounds of my home cut brass in the last few days and inspected all the cases for anything out of the norm and nothing so as for me I don't see the danger factor some think there is, no pushed or mushroomed primers, no case swelling or skid marks and no sign of the case slamming into the bolt at a deforming level.

So again if one was to take recycled cases and cut the neck off and trim the OACL to1.98 and use a powder like H-322 it's hard to load any + loads with it, and I crimp a tight crimp, you will be able to at least shoot your 450. I have had a miss fire but on try two it fired and I have shot about 300 of my recycled rounds and they work for me...

 

[scott fisher]

So I finally went to the range and tested my reloads out. I got about 2000fps with my guide gun. 49 grain of H4198. About 1 inch groups at fifty yard with open sights. Their was a dirt berm behind the target and every time I shot dirt would fly about two feet in the air. Looking foward to getting a pig with this load.