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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does anyone know if 45. long colts cam be safely fired out of a marlin 45-70 gov. (336 ss
i undderstand that it can be done out of a 45 casul.
and if it can, does it reduce barrrrrel life?
thanks in advance,
dog man
p.s sorry if this is a 8) silly question
 

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45 LC is .451 diameter 45-70 is .457
45 OAL 1.6 45-70 OAL 2.55

Significant issues as far as any kind of accuracy and I would be concerned about damaging the throat as well.
 

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In a word, NO! The .45 Colt has a smaller rim and case body, plus the other reasons listed by other posters. If the case didn't split on firing and blow gas back through the breach, your accuaracy would really suffer. I would speculate that you wouldn't be able to keep them on the paper at 50 yards.
 

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Bad idea. You'll get hurt of ruin your gun.
 

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TM7 I think you are refering to using 44 mag bullets in reloading a 444. Any time you have that big a jump from the shell to the throat you risk gas going around it, causing all kinds of leading issues, potential to do damage is just to great. Even those rifles that shoot shorter and longer shells, 22s, 22L, 22LR. If you shoot a lot of shorts you will get lead buildup that can be a real pain to remove and results in a rifle that wont chamber the LR or L if you shoot them enough. In most cases you want your bullet to be touching or very close to the lands and grooves when you fire it, especially cast bullets.
 

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dog man said:
does anyone know if 45. long colts cam be safely fired out of a marlin 45-70 gov. (336 ss
i undderstand that it can be done out of a 45 casul.
and if it can, does it reduce barrrrrel life?
thanks in advance,
dog man
p.s sorry if this is a 8) silly question
If you use SAAMI factory loadings, the pressures which are already very low may be so low that they will lodge a bullet. The straight walled 45 Colt in the tapered 45-70 chamber will be a somewhat better fit than a 44 Mag in a 45 Colt (which will split the case. I know this.) Even so, the fit will be very loose with around 25 thousandths excess near the rim. If I was in a life and death situation and had nothing else but 45 Colt ammo and a 45-70, I would do it. Other than that it is not an idea worth pursuing. It isn't a bad question however. At the very least you will almost certainly ruin any Colt case you use in a 45-70.
 

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Sure-Shot said:
TM7 I think you are refering to using 44 mag bullets in reloading a 444. Any time you have that big a jump from the shell to the throat you risk gas going around it, causing all kinds of leading issues, potential to do damage is just to great. Even those rifles that shoot shorter and longer shells, 22s, 22L, 22LR. If you shoot a lot of shorts you will get lead buildup that can be a real pain to remove and results in a rifle that wont chamber the LR or L if you shoot them enough. In most cases you want your bullet to be touching or very close to the lands and grooves when you fire it, especially cast bullets.

Agreed Sure-Shot,,,,,but I still think you can do it in a pinch or even occassionally single shot style or even in an H & R rifle. Would help to be a fastidious chamber cleaner though. The .444 has a nice taper to the brass case that might feed a bumped up bullet into the throat of the .444 barrel, too. Sort of like shooting a 45lc in the Rossi .410 shotgun. Maybe TTT can give it try.... :idea: :?: :)


..............TM7
 

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TM7 said:
BUT,,,,,a 44mag can be fired in a 444marlin without much consequence--I think....?


..................TM7
No. Case dimensions at the case head are too different. Thus the .445 Super Mag which can do with cases as short as the .44 American.
 

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Hobie said:
TM7 said:
BUT,,,,,a 44mag can be fired in a 444marlin without much consequence--I think....?


..................TM7
No. Case dimensions at the case head are too different. Thus the .445 Super Mag which can do with cases as short as the .44 American.

Well, according to 'Metallic Cartridge Reloading' [all new 3rd edition, page 252 and 254] by Mic McPherson the cartridge head dimensions are essentially identical. And I do mean identical. Can someone try to chamber a 44mag in a 444marlin chamber please...???? In fact, [and I may be inncorrect] but isn't the derivation of the 444 just a lengthened 44mag case with a slight taper?? Don't know much about the 445supermag, isn't it a lengthened 44mag again? Would like to have one though. Also as a sidebar, don't some guys fireform 444 brass for use in the 410 shotgun?


...........................................TM7
 

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As to the shell cases the 44 and 444 are similar but not the same, base size is same 444 has a narrow band between the base and where the case goes up where as the 44 does not have that band. I believe I did read something about either using a 444 case to reload for a 410 or shooting 410 cartridges in the 444. I know you can make shot loads for a 444, one I have read about but did not try had 3 OOO balls in it.
 

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Sure-Shot said:
As to the shell cases the 44 and 444 are similar but not the same, base size is same 444 has a narrow band between the base and where the case goes up where as the 44 does not have that band. I believe I did read something about either using a 444 case to reload for a 410 or shooting 410 cartridges in the 444. I know you can make shot loads for a 444, one I have read about but did not try had 3 OOO balls in it.
Believe me I'm not trying to be difficult, but I'm looking in the Marlin Sporting Firearms catalog, the back page with the pictures of the cartridges, and for all intensive purposes the 44 and 444 case heads look the same. The case diagrams and measurements in Mr. McPherson's book essentially show them to be the same. So, I nominate an adventurous sole, perhaps TubbytheTuba, to try out the 44mag fit in his 444 chamber, even fire one medium power load if so inclined.... :wink:


..................................TM7
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
i know a dork at walmart

that would argue this. he insisted that .45 lc can be fired from a 45-70
he did however state that past 75 yards you will loose acur.

i just thought i would check. thanks for the info guys.
dog man
 

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from Greg Mushial.

Since when is the .4706" of the .444 Marlin the same as the .4570" of the .44 Mag? How can a .444 be a tapered .44 Mag case and still use a .429" bullet just like the .44 Mag? You don't think that's a significant difference? At 40K CUP?
 

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Hobie,
looks like a 17 hundreds taper in the longer 444 case no doubt to facilitate chambering. Greg's representation of the 44mag is a little misleading as to determining what those measurements are and the actual rebatement in the 44mag case. look at the actual full size pictures of cartridges in a Marlin Firearms catalog and you will see that the two cartridges are configured the same. I wish I was computor savy and equipped to post pictures from Mic McPherson's 'Metallic Cartridge Reloading' to show more real diagrams and measurements of the cases. If you like PM me and I will snail mail you the 44mag and 444marlin pages for your edification and to see the similarity of measurements. Now, I never tried to exchange a 44mag for a 444marlin....its academic to me....but I still think you can do it on occassion if the need cropped up, but I will concede that the 444marlin has a thicker dimension than the 44mag at the web/head interface.

.............................TM7
 
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