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I'm considering buying a Marlin 1895GS guide gun. This has led me to doing a lot of homework regarding this caliber. Things like the factory ammo being loaded down, which I didn't know. I do handload. After reading numerous articles I am wondering is there an optimum bullet weight for the 45-70? Example the 270 winchester is renowned for the 130g bullet where trajectory and energy figures are the most favourable. After all of my reading, with many bullet weights available i am confused. I read the 300g nosler partition out penetrates a 405g soft point, which would have a better trajectory, guessing this would be good for almost anything, though I'm only clutching at straws as I'm really not sure. I live in Australia. It would be used for Sambar deer, large and very tough animal and feral pigs. Any info regarding this caliber would be appreciated especially optimum bullet weight.

Thanks
Rick
 

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Hello Australia ;) this is "Spitsbergen (78°13′N 15°33′E) speaking, the other side of the one/same world ! 8)


Not long ago I purchased a Marlin 1895GS in the 45/70 Gov. caliber.

I love the gun and I truly belive this rifle is a keeper !

The first load I used in my gun was the 405 grain SP Remington cartr.
I personal belive in heavy bullets in moderate speeds.. Yes I DOo belive in the 405 grain from Remington.. Maby the bullet in it self is a bit on the soft side for tuff skin but that remains to be exp. in game..

If you belive in lighter bullets at higher speed maby you should look at the (perfect compromise ?) many 300 grain loads..

The Winchester 300 grain Partition Gold will be my next try on the range.
If this one matches my individual rifle good, within 100yards (with open sights!) it might be the one I use at lighter game as for ex. deer.

OBS/NB:
My words are NOt fiiiilled with experience from this concret caliber/weapon. Many in this forum both speak/spell this language better and have more knowledge about this than I do..

MVH Niclas,
 

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reneerick -

The optimun bullet weight depends on the application.

I have three distinct optimum weights for the .45-70:

300g hardcast over 13.5g HS-6, 1167fps, very accurate and very low recoil. Great plinker load and very inexpensive.

350g North Fork over H4198 for 2183fps. The most consistently consistent load I have ever developed, and proven effective. Nothing in North America I wouldn't use this load for, including the big bears. I also like the 350g Speer FP at similar velocities.

460g hardcast at 1812fps. For the most dangerous game, including the stray backyard rhino in Colorado where I make my home. This load is great fun to watch others shoot. It also takes swinging steel targets and wraps them around the support pole at 100 yards.
 

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If you ar looking for one weight of bullet that does a good job at most velocities, it would be the 405 grain. There are lighter and the heavier ones will tip the scales at over 500 grains. But the 405 is a good middle of the road bullet and will do just fine.
Regards
Bestboss
 
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I have had my 1895GS for four days. However I did shoot the Remington 405 grain soft points at the range and at 50 yards they are superbly accurate and consistant. I would imagine there are many different bullet wait and types with different loadings you can look at. If you do not handload then the 405 Remington's are a good choice.
I plan to hunt with them whenever I get the chance.
 

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liked 4-05s ...

Liked these today for first day out with the gun.. accurate, and impressive when just blowing some things up... good accuracy just plinking out to two hundred yards roughly..
shoot a lot of all of them and let us all know what you think.
dk
trying winchester same wt. next..
then lighter then handloads with what feels best at that time. \JMHO
 

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reneerick,

Coyote Hunter and Bestboss are arriving at the same place with two differing methods. . .C-Hntr with a variety of slugs and powders. . B-boss with differing powders/ and/or charges. ( Mind you, reneerick, there are some powders that can be loaded down to 45 Colt levels all the way up to max level three bruisers).

For the last 30 years I've been in C-Hntr's camp. I've been shooting in five diferent shooting events using over 20 different bullets in 35 different loads, using as many different powders.

I quite last year. It was going to blow up my head with variety-overload. My powder room is better stocked than any store in town. That's NOT RIGHT. So, I'm with Bestboss now. He's answering your question of "one wt" like I would today. Hey, it's a 45-70, designed around the 405gr slug. Learn THAT slug and you can shoot anything on this dirt just shy of Cape & Rhono-class. Pick a powder that can do way up and waaaay down. Then it's only a matter of elevation compensation, not a geologic survey of a new point of impact with a new piece of lead. Some guns can put them ALL inline. Most won't.

I've just completed my 4,500 reloading & shot of a 45-70, in a big variety of loads (six months). I used them all from 300gr's up to 600grs. From the view-point of a burned-out high volume shooter, there is no substitute for knowing a gun well, and shooting that gun often enough to know how it goes bang with THAT bullet.. Ok, variety is the spice of life. But five years ago in a high-power 1K comp I got my butt buried by a geezer gent that shot one load, four distances. Damn that guy knew his gun. Throw in the wind, and this guy humbled a field of national shooters. . . And that was with a bottle-neck.

My point? Damn, I forget. . :D . . . but The 400 gr wt is a good place to be. I've got club members that globe-trot & hunt EVERYTHING Mother Earth has to offer, and have been doing so for decades. They Loooove the 45-70. They say that a solid 400-- 500 gr slug, at 1800 fps, will penetrate MUCH further than the same at 22'-2300 fps. (" the faster you go, the faster you stop"). . Plus, you can make that 400 gr feel like a 45 Colt. Pretty cool. My point is that backing down loads works. Just because you can go waaay up, doesn't mean you have to. Want light? Then load light. Dies stay adjusted the same, molds are the same , windage stays the same, inventory stays the same.

I did the math a few months ago. I thought 'light' lead would be cheaper. After the powder, primers, dies, etc were factored in, ONE bullet, one powder, one primer. . it was even. My time is worth a lot, so THAT tipped it to the 405gr. ( not too heavy, not too light). . Bummer that I have over 2000 each of 300, 350 and 500 gr slugs around tho. Sheeese.. .( not to mention the five different powders for the same.) :evil:

Ok, maybe I'm just not in the playing-around mood anymore. I like to spend my time shooting, not tinkering with mega-variety. That's for the younger of you guys, I guess. I have a bunch of primed cases staged and ready. Now it's just powder loads. Simple, ez, fast. Shoot. More time shooting. I've got other calibers to load for.

BTW: I came to this conclusion last night.. . heh heh. That'll teach you to listen to me. Yikes.
 

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My vote goes for the 350gr bullets, theres several good 350grs bullets around and theres several "Premium" 350gr bullets. I think thats why Marlin went with the 350gr in the 450, they went with the optimum.
The 405gr seems to have much less choice....................But they do have the remington 405gr bullet, cheap, accurate and works well.
............................................................................................Marko
 

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405 grain hardcast loaded with 40 grains of IMR-3031 for 1400 fps, at this velocity no need a gas check design. I'm going to try Reloader-7 next, same amount of powder gives a tad more velocity at a tad less pressure.
 

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I guess reneerick has some good choices out there. Given where he lives, and the game he'll face, I suppose he wouldn't need to worry about punching thru the skull of a pissoff'd grizzly wanting the 500 pounds of freezer meat you just downed. My bud's that are Alaska natives now ( 30 years doing pipeline work) reflect that Nosler's 300 Partitions are NOT a good choice there unless you like to first get the bear angry, then you rack in a 500 grainer solid REALLY quick. :shock:

Partitions are good bullets and have their applications. .just not where what you're aiming at has big teeth, claws, and a HUGE bone structure guarding the vitals. Eeeeek. . .I would soil myself for sure. To my Alaska bud's, even 350 grainers are "Like a 308, . .workable, but pick the time & place". ..

Well, anything in the lower 48 is good I suppose. The 350's trajectories are 'better' and it IS a lot of lead. I initially bought a lot of 350's, and was a happy guy.. .but a phone call later and an invite to Alaska,.. hmm, 405's.

So, for me, if it's just the one gun in question, 400's cover a lot of real estate. No grizzly in your future within 2,000 miles, then 350's. I'm a newly-converted "just one bullet in 45-70" tho. Having to quickly mount & shoot to save my pathetic hide makes me want to know where that lead goes 100% of the time, every foot of the way. 99% of my 45-70 shots are from standing.. I don't think Alaska has a lot of sandbags, so I'm popping off a lot of warm lead at steel, at various ranges up to 100 yds. I've gotten myself weaned from my ten-second average 'match' cadence, down to just under three for a good shot. But, when you count to three, that's a looong time when a big critter is only twenty five yards ( or closer), coming your way. :shock:

I'll take lot's of clean skivvies, or get quicker. I'm thinking quicker would be better.
 

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I suppose Federal 300gr Speer hot-cor is a deer or moose round then?
I just bought 4 boxes of it because it was cheap(40% off as shop is going out of business). I just got my 1895GS so I will just use this stuff for hitting paper and save my last two boxes of Remington 405 gr sp for dear when I ever get the chance to go hunting.

I would like to try 400-600gr bullets but must wait until I get the free time to reload and have an experienced and knowledgeable reoloader give me the benefit of his experience. Presently just haveing a Guide Gun is a thrill. Haveing the opportunity in the future to reload is something to look forward to.
 

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Teapot said:
I suppose Federal 300gr Speer hot-cor is a deer or moose round then?
I just bought 4 boxes of it because it was cheap(40% off as shop is going out of business). I just got my 1895GS so I will just use this stuff for hitting paper and save my last two boxes of Remington 405 gr sp for dear when I ever get the chance to go hunting.

I would like to try 400-600gr bullets but must wait until I get the free time to reload and have an experienced and knowledgeable reoloader give me the benefit of his experience. Presently just haveing a Guide Gun is a thrill. Haveing the opportunity in the future to reload is something to look forward to.
Teapot. . . Your guess is as good as mine on the Speers. Heck, a Guide is one of those guns that probably won't see the open plains of Wyoming dong a 300 yard shot. . . so, what the heck, get to know some heavy metal. When I think of Canada, I think trees, mountains,. . .more trees and maybe a meadow, and more trees. :p Realizing that a 44 mag 240 gr has been a great round for a LOT of game, I would hazard a thought that 300 gr's of a 45 cal can do it too. Ok, stay away from a slanting frontal forehead shot on a charging bear. ..but other that. .?

Really tho, in reality the flatter shooting lighter slugs are being used for what? Over 100 yards/meters in the woods? With a Guide? Probably not. 175 yard trajectory comparo's ? Probably not. In my handloads, and store-bought for that matter, Hot 300's kick as much as warm 400's. It's a function of the math. But, Warm 400's will work in more places, in more instances, in more bad angles, than any hot 300. BTW: at 40 % off, I would have bought them also. It goes bang, so wth.
 

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Yes, I agree with your rundown the 300's uses. I dislike light bullets and only bought them to get in some practice. I did scoop one last box of Remington 405's slow and fairly heavy. My preferance would be for high 400's to 500 grain hardcast.
 

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Oh !

so now maybe I get something straight : it dawns on me that the 405 remmy round trapdoor loading is going slow enough for me to duplicate it in a non-gas checked hard cast inexpensive bullet ? So if I liked it and found it to be " enough " I could duplicate the factory ballistics and blow up a lot of stuff to learn the gun really well at a lot of distances - cheaply and without punishment, and never be short on killing power performance on Louisiana game and dirt clods, beer cans or paper plates...!
cool.
also it appears then that the only problem with no gas check is higher speeds causing leading..but the rem's speed is slow enough for no problem...
one bullet one loading lots of shooting...does the bullet have to be especially hard cast or anything like that at that speed ? ( is this a hi jack ? )
 

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Re: Oh !

kennisondan said:
so now maybe I get something straight : it dawns on me that the 405 remmy round trapdoor loading is going slow enough for me to duplicate it in a non-gas checked hard cast inexpensive bullet ? So if I liked it and found it to be " enough " I could duplicate the factory ballistics and blow up a lot of stuff to learn the gun really well at a lot of distances - cheaply and without punishment, and never be short on killing power performance on Louisiana game and dirt clods, beer cans or paper plates...!
cool.
also it appears then that the only problem with no gas check is higher speeds causing leading..but the rem's speed is slow enough for no problem...
one bullet one loading lots of shooting...does the bullet have to be especially hard cast or anything like that at that speed ? ( is this a hi jack ? )
kennisondon,

As far as leading, I haven't had any at level '2' speeds using the likes of Laser Cast, and wheel wt alloy stuff. None of my normal loads have gone over 1700 fps yet, so above that may require gc's. Somebody else on this forum will know more about that. I'm plinking with 1300-1450 fps in 405 grs. .and it's capable of taking any Louisiana man-eating deer species. That's a lot of lead... . .

I'm not certain about the cans tho :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for all of the replies boys. These are exactly the answers I was looking for. The comment about not having deadly game like grizzlies over here is spot on. I'm leaning toward the weight of around 350 to 405 grains as we don't have the dangerous game here therefore I don't think I would need the penetration of say the 540 grain Garrett hammerhead.

Thanks
Rick
 

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Hammerhead in Australia? I should think not, but it would not be a bad idea if you decide to head out to southern Africa for a safari. If you do then those Garrett cartridges would come in handy.

Also you may wish to play around with different weights and loadings if you wish to shoot at longer distances. I have a Guide Gun but some pistol shooters can shoot .45 Colt rounds 200 yards and hit largeish targets with great frequency. Surely and eighteen and a half inch barrel with a faster bullet can best that. That is why it is good to play around with the bullets and loadings.
 

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Teapot said:
Hammerhead in Australia? I should think not, but it would not be a bad idea if you decide to head out to southern Africa for a safari. If you do then those Garrett cartridges would come in handy.

Also you may wish to play around with different weights and loadings if you wish to shoot at longer distances. I have a Guide Gun but some pistol shooters can shoot .45 Colt rounds 200 yards and hit largeish targets with great frequency. Surely and eighteen and a half inch barrel with a faster bullet can best that. That is why it is good to play around with the bullets and loadings.
Yeah. . .Teapot is right to play around with loadings. BUT, once you figure it out, settle down with those, and only those, and shoot. Shoot a lot. Shoot more. Reload. Shoot more. " You never Know if you never go" . .as the saying goes. You don't know where you're going if you don't know where you've been, so to speak.

I can't stress the point enough tho: muscle memory. Quickly & accurately bringing any gun to mount. . any gun. . requires repetition of motion and a familier load ( assuming you want to HIT something). .at any given distance. If you are going hunting big game, then get to know your hunting load. At any range. Don't have a short range load, med, then looong range. Have a LOAD. Then shoot & plink at all ranges. In the field, reflexes, habits, memory. . will really make your day better.

I shot IMHSA for 20 years, Palma for 10, various others for 20. It wasn't until I 'standardized' my loads did I clean my targets. It was a good lesson.
 
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