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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Due to the difference in capacities between brands of brass...which comes out to about 3-4 grains worth of difference, I am making a new rule here in the 45-70 forum.

From this day forward, any load data I see posted that does not mention the brass used...will be deleted without notice or any word from me, just deleted. Repeat offenders will hear from me :)

It doesn't matter if its a Trapdoor level load, list the brass...


I'm not trying to be a hard case about it, I just think its a good idea for the sake of safety...We don't want to see anybody get hurt. We have lots of new reloaders here and we don't want to get them started off with a secondary explosion ;)

swany said:
As measured by Brian Pierce!!!

1-.450 Marlin Brass/73.5 grains of water (2.7 grains less than Remington 45-70 Brass!!!)

2-.45-70 Remington Brass/76.2 grains of water (1.3 grains less than Starline Brass)

3-.45-70 Starline Brass/77.5 grains of water (2.8 grains less than Winchester Brass)

4-.45-70 Winchester Brass/80.3 grains of water (4.1 grains "More" than Remington Brass)
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Very good idea Ridgerunner. I am one who has several different brands of brass and need to know this info.

T-o-m
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Way to go Ridge.......behind you one hundred percet %100!!!!!

Been needing to be done for a while.



Lonerider
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Listing load data calls for listing specs anyway. There is no reason since folks are listing everything else that they shouldn't list what make of brass they are using. This seems like a reasonable, common-sense kind of rule.
 
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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

10-4 I apologize as I am guilty of not posting the brass used. I will make note- I use winchester brass exclusively, but will say each time. Thanks. :)
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

In your sticky it might be a good idea to post the capacity of each of the major brands of brass, so folks will know what the difference is. I have seen that info. posted several times here, incorrectly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

lonerider said:
Way to go Ridge.......behind you one hundred percent 100%
Thats the spirit!!!

You all can help with this (and any other issue) by clicking that little "report to moderator" icon when you see anything that doesn't need to be here. I'm on here a lot...but I don't read every single post (I do read most of them though ;D).

If you see anything that is questionable...anything at all, let us know by reporting it.
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

I compiled the capacities of those listed by Swany from an article from Brian Pierce who only listed the water capacity and I added the difference between the 45-70 cases and 450 Marlin to remind everyone that 45-70 data cannot be used in a 450 Marlin nor can Hodgdons data be used with anything but Winchester brass..

On another note for the nay sayers to water capacity compared to powder capacity..It differs and here is why.

These days, we generally measure powder (or case) capacity by means of its total water capacity. We do this because gunpowder is an inexact item. It varies in density, kernel size and shape. It would be difficult to get an exact measurement because no two charges of powder ever settle exactly the same, and there is always some amount of air between the kernels. Water, on the other hand is extremely uniform and always packs the same (barring bubbles). So we use water capacity as a more uniform method of expressing powder capacity when we measure cartridge cases.
Jayco
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Thanks for the reminder all my 45-70 brass is star line so I do not always think of that.
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Easy enough to repost the data here.


When posting loads give their source, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon, Sierra ect or some other source but give it, and components, bullets by brand and weight, cases by brand, powder with full designation, ie H4198 and IMR4198 are sometimes not equal.


As measured by Brian Pierce!!!

1-.450 Marlin Brass/73.5 grains of water(2.7 grains less than Remington 45-70 Brass!!!)
2-.45-70 Remington Brass/76.2 grains of water(1.3 grains less than Starline Brass)
3-.45-70 Starline Brass/77.5 grains of water(2.8 grains less than Winchester Brass)
4-.45-70 Winchester Brass/80.3 grains of water.(4.1 grains "More" than Remington Brass.)
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

WoW silly me and I thought to give all of the info on a load was a given lol. As how can load info help anyone if they do not know the components that were used?
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Thanks guys. As a new re-loader I greatly appreciate all of the safety precautions you guys give.

Please keep it up!!!!
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

SeanT said:
Thanks guys. As a new re-loader I greatly appreciate all of the safety precautions you guys give.

Please keep it up!!!!
Welcome to the forum and please remember there is no such thing as a dumb question. We all had to start someplace :).
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

This should be stickied at the top of the page along with swanys post on case capacities! Different brass is the difference between safe and dangerous!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

lever addict said:
This should be stickied at the top of the page along with swanys post on case capacities!
It will be...just not yet
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

swany said:
1-.450 Marlin Brass/73.5 grains of water(2.7 grains less than Remington 45-70 Brass!!!)
Real .450 Marlin brass, or LE .450 Marlin brass? It still chafes my butt that Hornady is headstamping brass that isn't .450 Marlin brass as .450 Marlin...

Roscoe
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

As a reloader with what many here would consider minimal to moderate experience I can appreciate this personally.

I was loading some lasercast 405 grainers I'd just bought and using leverevolution brass. No data specifically for these bullets in my manuals so I was using data for a Lyman 405 grain cast. Several things almost got me in trouble. First, I believe the Lasercast 405 may be a longer bullet than the Lyman but not certain. Second, and I didn't know it at the time, the Hornady brass IS shorter than standard 45-70 brass. Third, I was loading a couple rounds, bumping up the charge, loading a couple more etc to have different loads to test at the range and working up to the max published load for a 405 grain bullet in a Marlin action. Fourth, I was loading these on a Lee Loader instead of my rock chucker just to try it out. I really do like them things... What scared me was when I got close (not AT, just close) to the published max I was having trouble seating the bullet to the crimp groove. With the Lee Loader, you use a mallet instead of a press if you didn't know that. So here I am with a near max load 45-70 and a hammer, trying to beat this bullet into the case wondering why it was "stuck" when it dawned on me.... It's FULL!!!! I was using the Lee scoops but I was weighing each charge on my RCBS scale. This was all before I started looking for shooting websites on line and was just using what books I had at home. Nothing happened but it COULD have.

So yea, I'm behind ya 100% too.
 
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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

Dave Bulla said:
As a reloader with what many here would consider minimal to moderate experience I can appreciate this personally.

I was loading some lasercast 405 grainers I'd just bought and using leverevolution brass. No data specifically for these bullets in my manuals so I was using data for a Lyman 405 grain cast. Several things almost got me in trouble. First, I believe the Lasercast 405 may be a longer bullet than the Lyman but not certain. Second, and I didn't know it at the time, the Hornady brass IS shorter than standard 45-70 brass. Third, I was loading a couple rounds, bumping up the charge, loading a couple more etc to have different loads to test at the range and working up to the max published load for a 405 grain bullet in a Marlin action. Fourth, I was loading these on a Lee Loader instead of my rock chucker just to try it out. I really do like them things... What scared me was when I got close (not AT, just close) to the published max I was having trouble seating the bullet to the crimp groove. With the Lee Loader, you use a mallet instead of a press if you didn't know that. So here I am with a near max load 45-70 and a hammer, trying to beat this bullet into the case wondering why it was "stuck" when it dawned on me.... It's FULL!!!! I was using the Lee scoops but I was weighing each charge on my RCBS scale. This was all before I started looking for shooting websites on line and was just using what books I had at home. Nothing happened but it COULD have.

So yea, I'm behind ya 100% too.
Dave, I am new at this too, and haven't gotten brave enough to try for max anything just yet. There are lots of variables that can't all be taken into account without some experience, that is why these threads are so important. Case manufacturer is a biggie and also as I am finding out, bullet design. Not all cast 405's are the same! I often wish that along with OAL that a dimension of the distance of the seated bullets base to the case head be listed in the load data. That way it could be known instantly if the particular bullet could be seated to the right depth and still make the OAL. If not then the charge would need to be adjusted for a deeper seated bullet. Just a lot to account for when going for a max load..
Never exceed loads cannot be the same for each of these 425gr cast!
 

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Re: New rule for posting 45-70 load data...PLEASE READ

For me, and any others that aren't that experienced, what problems can result.

I can understand compressed charges etc. But if I'm loading starting and light loads let say, what affect or problems will different case capacities have?

I never load up near max, and I do work up the loads I'm using. While I've mostly loaded pistol rounds without any problems, I've just started with rifle rounds.

I'm still loading light, since I mostly punch holes in paper. But all safety info is important, so if someone could respond, I'd appreciate it.
 
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