444 "quick" load

2490 Views 17 Replies 8 Participants Last post by 444powerpunch, May 13, 2011

Patrol

Discussion Starter · Mar 11, 2011

444 "quick" load

This is my first post here after several days of wandering through all the info...and very good information at that. Since you don't know of me I will tell you that I have been handloading for about 20 years. I have always worked up loads using three tenths grain to half grain per step. Go to the range and check for pressure signs and accuracy. I just like to play it safe. However, I'm going to need to clear some land that has been having black bears sighted on and around it. I don't have the time to work up any loads and get to the range while it's daylight. So, do you folks think that a load of 46gr H4198 using a Hornady 265 FP would still be in the safe zone? I have some Remington 240gr factory ammo but I just don't think the bullet is up to the task if I need to shoot the bear charging towards me. It worries me enough that I'm gonna be there working around the bears anyway, let alone to worry about my ammo.

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Roan444

· #2 · Mar 11, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

I use that bullet with 47g H4198. Its accurate and just max in my Lee Manual. You're fine at that weight that you're wanting to use.

Halwg

· #3 · Mar 11, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

I am also using 47.0 gr of H4198 and it is still a safe load. 46.0 gr should do well with the 265 gr, I don't think your velocities will lag that much behind the 47.0 gr load. Maybe in the 2150 fps range.

Patrol

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 11, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Thanks for the fast replies! I have read that the 47gr was the max, so I decided to drop a grain 'just in case'. I have a 444P, don't think I will get the velocity that you stated, but one never knows. I have NEVER had a rifle or handgun show pressure signs by using printed max powder charges but there is always that first time for everything. I have had most load/firearms drop in accuracy towards the upper end of the load scale, though. I really don't need pin-point accuracy at this time. But I sure want it to hit hard and go deep! Maybe the 47gr would be okay? Naw, I'll stick with the one grain down...less worries. Thanx again! Time to get started on the rounds I suppose.

Patrol

Discussion Starter · #5 · Mar 11, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

While I'm picking at brains, is there a place to buy a lever for a straight stock that has a larger opening (for wearing gloves)? Don't want a Chuck Connors style lever, but a little more open than the factory one.

Halwg

· #6 · Mar 11, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

One of our Industry Partners Mule Loops can make you one about any size you want, and his prices are reasonable. Check him out.

Roan444

· #7 · Mar 11, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Lots of pictures in the thread that Hal refers to here:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,70947.0.html

Enjoy! Surely there's one that will fit your taste...

jpickar

· #8 · Mar 14, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Where do you live and what kind of bears are you talking about? The factory Rem 240 load might be just fine.

John

mountain_man86

· #9 · Mar 14, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

That Load will work fine for black bear. The 47gr load mentioned as maximum is for standard primers. If you use Magnum primers, then the 46gr charge would be a maximum. I would advise however to test powder charges from 41gr's on up to the max though, and settle on which ever is most accurate. For your Purposes losing 100 feet a second off the muzzle will not be a problem, and accuracy should be your main concern. The reason for this will be where you need to shoot. Any Knowledgable bear hunter will let you know that when a bear is charging it is pumped full of adrenalin, and needs a bullet to the brain or bone structure to make sure the charge ends with you being completely safe. Study up on Black Bear Anatomy, learn to aim for the shoulder sockets to break them, and if you have a scope on the rifle, try and make sure it is no more than a 2.5 fixed power(4 at the most). The last thing you want is to have a rifle sighted high with a variable scope set to 9X amplification when you are trying to hurry to find a charging bear in the scope.

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Patrol

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 14, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

It would seem that there is quite a wait for those levers and I'm heading to Calhoun County, West Virginia on April 1st. I'm guessing just south of Halwg. I ordered one from Midway yesterday online, should be here this week.

The bears that I mentioned are black bears. From what the tracks looked like that I had seen, the bear came out of an area called Bear Fork. Last year (I think it was last year) there was a 500lb bear taken down about five miles from my place, and with the tracks that I saw, I'm sure there are some that come onto the property. The property I have there belonged to my father and is in need of clearing in some areas. I live in Ohio so I can't just get there to work on the place as often as I would like. Nobody lives there now and the animals have a free run of the place, which is fine. I'm not hunting the bear, just don't want to be unprepared if I get one angry because I'm in the way or they feel I am a threat. The carbine shoots very well with the factory Remingtons, but I have read that the bullet was not up to taking bear. Again, that is just what I have read. Just for peace of mind, I prefer the heavier bullets...I don't feel I have wasted my time by loading up a box. I loaded up some with Remington brass, Federal GM210 primers, 46gr H4198 and Hornady 265gr bullets at 2.560" COAL. Again, I don't plan on a bear hunt so I don't think a shoulder shot or broadside shot is going to happen. The way I have seen pictures of a bears skull, I would have to hit it between the eyes or even lower if it is charging at me...if I have the time to even get to a firearm. You guys have more knowledge on this than me as I shoot paper more than anything. So if I need correcting on anything, or you have advice for me, I'm all for it. BTW, I do have some "work up loads" but have not had time or daylight to try them. Sort of funny, once I get some areas cleared off I can try all my loads that I have worked up over the winter.

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jpickar

· #11 · Mar 14, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Well since you have the possibility of a 500lb bear I think your loads will be a better option than factory 240 grain. Most blacks don't get that big. But I think it is better to be over prepared than under prepared.

I live in grizzly country and blacks too. Most blacks are around 250 and I don't give the blacks much thought although we had a 500 plus pounder here one year tear our plumb tree up in broad daylight. Got video of him too.

I use a 870 loaded with slugs when I'm working in our woods if I know there is a bear in the area. That is better than a 444 at ranges under 100 yards. I have a 444 but I know what does a better job up close. Give that a thought.

John

smoker

· #12 · Mar 15, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Just my .02 but after much research, like you, I have determined that it's all in the bullet. Use your 240's for plinking and get a quailty 300 grain bullet like Swift or Barnes. These bullets will NOT come apart like most 240's will. Son shot a 250 pound bear with my load using a 300 XTP and all that was left was a very pretty copper petal. Good luck, smoker

Patrol

Discussion Starter · #13 · Mar 16, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Thanks for the tips and advice! I will have a shotgun there also that I will leave with my truck and supplies. I know me, I'll walk back to my truck for something and not have anything with me once I get there while the little carbine is hanging in a tree about 100 yards away.

308/338

· #14 · Mar 17, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Just my two cents H4198 46.0 gr. 265 gr. FN HDY. would stop anything in the USA. Back bear are probably the smallest bears in the Americas and I don't think their nature is to avoid humans rather than to charge.

TO NY

PS if you don't eat back bear and there isn't a population problem or if your live is in danger then why shoot one.

Patrol

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 17, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

308/338, I'm not sure if we understand each other but, I am not going there to shoot a bear for any other reason than to protect myself. I'm sure I will be making enough noise that the bear and I will not just 'bump' into each other. However, as I stated earlier, the bear may feel threatened or just want me to go away from it's area...I have no way of knowing. I may not even see a bear, that would be fine with me. I will have enough to be thinking about with cutting down trees and clearing brush...and watching for copperheads. Just a little peace of mind to know that I at least have some sort of defense if the problem does develope.

308/338

· #16 · Mar 17, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Patrol said:
308/338, I'm not sure if we understand each other but, I am not going there to shoot a bear for any other reason than to protect myself. I'm sure I will be making enough noise that the bear and I will not just 'bump' into each other. However, as I stated earlier, the bear may feel threatened or just want me to go away from it's area...I have no way of knowing. I may not even see a bear, that would be fine with me. I will have enough to be thinking about with cutting down trees and clearing brush...and watching for copperheads. Just a little peace of mind to know that I at least have some sort of defense if the problem does develope.

Patrol My PS wasn't direct to you. It was just a statement of My belief. They're many bears in the woods of NYS but I never seen one yet. I once walked in to the woods posted for awhile and then walked back out to the car only to find bear tracks stepping over mine. I fully understand shooting any animal to protect oneself. On that we're on the same page.

Patrol

Discussion Starter · #17 · May 13, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

Thanks for the advice and such from everyone here. I did not need to take even a slingshot for bears...there's nothing on that property these days but poachers and a whole bunch of briars, brush and trees. I hate to admit it but, I'm getting way to long in the tooth to be clearing land these days!

444powerpunch

· #18 · May 13, 2011

Re: 444 "quick" load

In archery last year I had a 350lbs bear standing 5ft from me when I hit the ground after I climbed down out of my stand it followed me 5 miles on a trail out of the woods right to the road I would stop and talk to it it was only 10 ft behind me the whole way I see no worry about black bear unless they have cubs then I go the other way. And I have had many encounters with bears just like this.

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