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Hello everyone, first time posting. After some research I had decided to go the .444 route over the venerable 45/70 due to ballistics and recoil as I am not a reloader and will use factory ammo. Having a "flatter" round with approx 1/3 less recoil sounded like a winner to me but after lots of searching I cant find one locally ( North FL) and even GB seems limited and more expensive than the 45/70. I have an opportunity to buy a like new 45 guide gun here for a great price but it isn't exactly what I wanted. What say you guys, wait it out and try to find a .444 or just buy a 45/70 and be done with it?
 

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There is not a great deal of recoil difference between a standard factory 45-70 300 gr HP load and a standard factory 240 gr 444 load. Both will up the recoil a lot with a super performance load in 265 gr in the 444 or heavier loads in the 45-70. Ammo choice is the key. A 444 person here, would wait on the 444 and use standard Remington 444 240 gr loads. The standard velocity 300 gr load in the 45-70 is no joke, and is a better deer load than the standard Remington 444 load to be honest. Have used both.
 

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All I will say is..... the times I bought something other than what I "really" wanted because it was available I was never really happy with that choice. If you want a triple 4 I suggest you wait as one will turn up. Even if it costs more money, you'll be happier if you get what you want and the money will be forgotten.

Now, there are no flies on a 45-70 so it is never a bad choice. Comparing the two cartridges will go on forever. I like them both, but if had to pick one it would be the 444.

As mentioned, the 444 won't really be easier in the recoil department.

Good luck with your decision.

Dan
 

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I started out with the 45-70 and did not think it got any better. Then I stumbled on the T4 and changed my mind.
I say start checking pawn shops and get an older JM stamped one. Deer season just ended in most locations and they should start showing up.
 

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a 444 marlin with a 265 gr bullet at 2000 fps and a 45-70 with a 300 gr bullet at 2000 fps are neck and neck to 300 yards with fps-fpe and drop with a 100 yard zero. 444 marlin 265 gr bullet at 2000 fps zeroed at 100 yards, 200 yrd, 1311 fps fpe 1011 drop 11.9", 300 yrd, 1096 fps fpe 707 drop 44.3". 45-70 300 gr at 2000 fps zeroed at 100 yrd, 200 yrd 1333 fps, fpe 1183 drop 11.7", 300 yrd 1117 fps fpe 831 drop 43.1". in strong rifles both can be loaded at just about the same fps with any weight bullets you would normaly use. two doe shot with my ruger # 3 at around a hundred yards with a 300 gr bullet at 1900 fps, a 444 marlin with 265 gr bullets at 1900 fps would have the same results. sorry about the poor pictures
 

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https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/a...let-tests.html

Study the above carefully. Note the 44 Magnum at useful ranges actually has better expansion and penetration than the 444 in most cases. Have shot a lot of game with both, yes the 444 can hit a lot harder, on both ends. If recoil is a concern, and your shooting is inside 200 yards, a 44 Mag with 240 gr loads is going to be just fine. Folks will say a 44 is not a long range gun, but have killed a truck load of deer at or around 200 yds, with no issues. This from a stand looking down a mowed power line, rifle sighted about 3.5 inches high at 100 yds. For years it was a Marlin 1894 gun, but now tote a Ruger 77/44 from time to time. 200 yards is about it, given both these rifles are about 2.5 moa.

in other words, you will not be under gunned with a 1894, if you know how to appreciate it correctly.

I use the 444, but this is with a reloaded premium Swift 240 gr bonded hollow point, which is a game changer.
 

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I can tell you that the 444 does have substantial recoil when using Hornady superformance / light magnum ammunition. I have the marlin 444 with the 22" barrel, it is a heavy rifle, and it does kick pretty hard. Not sure how much recoil the Remington 240 grain ammo has, as I have never fired them. I do reload for it and my reloads do kick, but not as hard as the superformance. Obviously, if you want a 444 that bad you'll have to be patient and wait until one becomes available. You might try finding one at a gun show, but good luck with that. If it were me, I would just go for the 45 70. You will have better luck at finding one, IMO, than a 444. They seem to be more common and so is the ammunition. I actually saw some 45 70 ammunition at our local Walmart when they had the marlin 45 70 rifle in stock. I will say this though, I do like the 444 and I won't give mine up. It will never have the history or fame of the 45 70. But the 444 sits in a class all by itself. no matter what anyone thinks or says. Good luck, I hope you find what you're looking for.
 

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my lone 444 marlin is in a Winchester timber carbine and I shot one deer with it using a 265 gr Hornady at 1900 fps and killed it with one high shoulder shot and it just went down. my two 44 mag,s are a marlin 94 sporter and a Winchester 94 rifle legacy.
 

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a 444 marlin with a 265 gr bullet at 2000 fps and a 45-70 with a 300 gr bullet at 2000 fps are neck and neck to 300 yards with fps-fpe and drop with a 100 yard zero. 444 marlin 265 gr bullet at 2000 fps zeroed at 100 yards, 200 yrd, 1311 fps fpe 1011 drop 11.9", 300 yrd, 1096 fps fpe 707 drop 44.3". 45-70 300 gr at 2000 fps zeroed at 100 yrd, 200 yrd 1333 fps, fpe 1183 drop 11.7", 300 yrd 1117 fps fpe 831 drop 43.1". in strong rifles both can be loaded at just about the same fps with any weight bullets you would normaly use. two doe shot with my ruger # 3 at around a hundred yards with a 300 gr bullet at 1900 fps, a 444 marlin with 265 gr bullets at 1900 fps would have the same results. sorry about the poor pictures
Whoa man! Take it easy on these T4 guys. Don't hurt their pride by letting them know that the 45-70 actually is the flatter of the two shooters! That's the only thing they had🤣
 

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mraley1,

Pretty hard to go wrong either way.

While the triple 4 may have a flatter trajectory, part of that can be mitigated by proper scope choice.

I have taken a pile of deer with the 45/70 and three elk, and while I don't have the triple 4, my son does and I used used cast bullets made for his rifle in a RUGER 77/44.

275/280gr Wide Flat Nose cast that I put out the barrel of a RUGER 77/44 at 1750. Two deer taken, both dead where they stood. total penetration on both, one at 100yds and the other much closer.

With the 465gr WFN I use in the 45/70, I have a muzzle velocity right at 1650fps.

Now my point is you DO NOT need warp velocity to get er done with a good WFN/large meplat cast bullet, which means less recoil then when pushing the velocity to higher levels.

Scope ------------- I have for years used the center of kill zone sight in on my typical high velocity centerfires. Doesn't work worth a hoot on the 45/70 and maybe only slightly better with the .444, but what works very well is a Leupold CDS (Custom Dial System) scope. Mine is a 2X7 and my custom dial gives me a possible dead on hold of about 275yds. Meaning range a critter at 100 - 275yds, dial in that setting on the custom dial, hold center of kill zone and get the knife ready. The three elk were all taken at 100 - 160yds.

So, get what rings your bell! That 45/70 will do the job providing as always that the shooter does his!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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mraley1,

Pretty hard to go wrong either way.

While the triple 4 may have a flatter trajectory, part of that can be mitigated by proper scope choice.

I have taken a pile of deer with the 45/70 and three elk, and while I don't have the triple 4, my son does and I used used cast bullets made for his rifle in a RUGER 77/44.

275/280gr Wide Flat Nose cast that I put out the barrel of a RUGER 77/44 at 1750. Two deer taken, both dead where they stood. total penetration on both, one at 100yds and the other much closer.

With the 465gr WFN I use in the 45/70, I have a muzzle velocity right at 1650fps.

Now my point is you DO NOT need warp velocity to get er done with a good WFN/large meplat cast bullet, which means less recoil then when pushing the velocity to higher levels.

Scope ------------- I have for years used the center of kill zone sight in on my typical high velocity centerfires. Doesn't work worth a hoot on the 45/70 and maybe only slightly better with the .444, but what works very well is a Leupold CDS (Custom Dial System) scope. Mine is a 2X7 and my custom dial gives me a possible dead on hold of about 275yds. Meaning range a critter at 100 - 275yds, dial in that setting on the custom dial, hold center of kill zone and get the knife ready. The three elk were all taken at 100 - 160yds.

So, get what rings your bell! That 45/70 will do the job providing as always that the shooter does his!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Hey Crusty, how does your Leopold track? Pretty consistent with 40 some inches of drop? Does it track back fine?
 

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Whoa man! Take it easy on these T4 guys. Don't hurt their pride by letting them know that the 45-70 actually is the flatter of the two shooters! That's the only thing they had藍
I call FOUL! The Hornady Superperformance 265 grain load is rated at 2400 fps. I suppose any cartridge looks good compared to a different cartridge if the challenger is underloaded. A 45-70 300 grain load at 2000 fps is hot load. A 444 265 grain load at 2000 fps is anemic when compared to the cartridge's capabilities. Hornady's 250 grain load for the 45-70 clocks at 2025 fps.

Apples & Oranges.

T.S.
 

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I call FOUL! The Hornady Superperformance 265 grain load is rated at 2400 fps. I suppose any cartridge looks good compared to a different cartridge if the challenger is underloaded. A 45-70 300 grain load at 2000 fps is hot load. A 444 265 grain load at 2000 fps is anemic when compared to the cartridge's capabilities. Hornady's 250 grain load for the 45-70 clocks at 2025 fps.

Apples & Oranges.

T.S.
Just riling some people up. But I wouldn't say a 300 grain load at 2000 is hot. Now my 435 grain load at 1950 is though. And yes the 265 load should be much faster than 2000. It would be nice to see what it actually chronographs though. Factory numbers are usually high
 

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If it's a 444 you want, then wait for one. You'll get the 45-70 someday, trust me. In both cases, wait for a JM gun.
 

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Just ran some max loads on Quickload. With the 265 flatnose in the 444 running at 2400 fps it shoots about 1" and 2.5" at 200 and 300 yards vs the 45-70 325 FTX. THE 444 had about an extra 3000 psi to do so though.

With the 300 grain HP quickload says the 45-70 is actually .5" flatter at 200 and 300 against the same 444 load still at 3000 psi lower. That load is 37600 psi vs 40500 in the 444

Sooooo. There's that
 

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in a strong 45-70 rifle a 250gr barnes txs can be pushed to 2500-2600 fps with 51.9 grs of H-4198 and 50 grs of IMR 4198 in the 45-70 at 43,100 psi-44,600 psi and a 300 gr sie hp in the 45-50 can be pushed 2400-2500 fps with the same powders. the ruger#1-#3 and Winchester high walls can stand the pressure, if your shoulder can, mine can,t.
 
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