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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I keep seeing this pop up on this site. Why you would think from the way people are concerned that it must be very common and it must totally put the gun out og commission in only a few rounds. So lets get real here and lets talk about your actual experiences. NOT WHAT YOU READ!! NOT WHAT SOME ONE TOLD YOU!!

Problem here is that it makes some since. all that powder and the void before the rifling. It is supposed to also happen n 22 when you fire shorts in a long rifle chamber. I have fired thousands of rounds of both and have never expereince a problem. So here what I think is going on here. Some CB action shooter fired 10,000 rounds of 38s through his Marlin and then tried to chamber a 357 and had some trouble.

I have fired as many as 500 rounds of 38s through my Ruger vaquero in one sitting and then cahmbered 357s with ease. I have shot maybe 300 rounds of 38s through my marlin and then shot 357s with ease. When I was in college in the late 70s I shot thousands of 22 shorts in my little winchester blot action in compititions without ever cleaning it over the course of a year. I never fired anything else in it until I too it squirrel hunting the following year no problems and I didn't clean it either.

I contend that you would have to shoot a very large number of 38s WITHOUT shooting any 357s before this could ever cause cycling problems. The first 357 would cut it down. Inf fact I read one post over on Pac Kellys sight that said he used a fired 357 case to cut the ridge off , he admitted to only shooting 38s.

I want to know if you have actualy had feeding problems that cleaning this ridge helped alliviate. Not did a ridge develop and you cleaned it.

Also is you have experineced the problem what brand and type of ammo or powder were you using.

With the 38s I shoot I don't even see enough fouling to believe this is really a problem with modern manufactured ammunition. Now some nasty burning power like the old red dot I used when I shot skeet competitively yes I migh tbelieve it.
 

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I shoot Specials, 38 and 44 in Marlin 1894s with no problem chambering the magnums later.
I use Titegroup powder and it seems to be fairly clean. Like the OP mentioned, the problem
may occur with a dirty powder.
FM
 

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For a number of years the agency I worked for issued 357 mag duty rounds, but qualified and trained with 38 special 148 grain wadcutters purchased from the lowest bidder for remanufactured ammo. Very often there would be a buildup of burnt powder from just ahead of the 38 case to the face of the cylinder. If a revolver had been fired for several iterations of the PPC (60 rounds), then loaded with 357 rounds for any reason, the 357s would sometimes load with slight resistance as they pushed against the crud buildup. However, they never failed to load or to fire.

I can't even imagine a similar crud buildup happening (let alone having an effect on functionality) in more normal usage of a modestly maintained 1894C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
biku324 said:
For a number of years the agency I worked for issued 357 mag duty rounds, but qualified and trained with 38 special 148 grain wadcutters purchased from the lowest bidder for remanufactured ammo. Very often there would be a buildup of burnt powder from just ahead of the 38 case to the face of the cylinder. If a revolver had been fired for several iterations of the PPC (60 rounds), then loaded with 357 rounds for any reason, the 357s would sometimes load with slight resistance as they pushed against the crud buildup. However, they never failed to load or to fire.

I can't even imagine a similar crud buildup happening (let alone having an effect on functionality) in more normal usage of a modestly maintained 1894C.

Thanks my point exactly, the crud doesn't get rock hard and the first 357 just pushed through it and if you can push it into a revolver cylinder with your thumb you can easily jack it in useing the lever of your Marlin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
flynmoose1 said:
I shoot Specials, 38 and 44 in Marlin 1894s with no problem chambering the magnums later.
I use Titegroup powder and it seems to be fairly clean. Like the OP mentioned, the problem
may occur with a dirty powder.
FM
Most smokeless powders these days burn so clean I rarely clean any rifle or handgun. My 270 model 700 gets one pass with a bore snake before I go to the rifle range every deer seaon. Been that way for at lease 10 years. Before bore snakes I just didn't clean it unless I got mudd in the barrell or it rained on me. I never even give it a second thought and it still shoots 3/4" at 100 yards after 34 years of service.
 

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I know a woman that has a 7 1/2 inch Ruger Redhawk in 44 mag.She mostly shoots 44 specials she gets at the indoor ranger she shoots at.She goes through a couple of boxes a month now. 30 years ago she shot 300 or 400 a week for the first couple of years.This is her carry gun.Her purse weighs a ton.About 15 years ago she wanted to shoot pigs that were rootin' up her garden.Asked me for some some magnum loads.When she tried to chamber them they wouldn't go in all the way.She didn't really clean the chambers that well and there was a visible crud ring that took me about 2 hours to get out of all the chambers.There is no telling how many rounds she put through it in 15 years or so before I cleaned the cylinder.20-30 thousand maybe.Maybe more.She did learn to use a lewis lead remover on the barrel after shooting range ammo but she never thought to scrub the cylinder.
 

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not 357 but a 460 revolver. gentleman was shooting 45 colts a fairly dirty powder( i dont know which) and then switched to some hot reloaded 460 ammunition without cleaning. the 460 brass was actually cut down to 45 colt length leaving a piece of brass ring in the front end of the cylinder. an extreem case no doubt but i was on the range working when he called me over to check his gun when it would not chamber the rounds due to the newly installed brass chamber rings! took a while to get them out without dammage. so no i have not seen the 38-357 issue but have seen something similar.
 

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In the 94C I mix up what I shoot. Maybe I haven't shot enough of the 38 specials to get a crud ring going. I have never had a problem.

I also shot a brick of 22 short through the 39A....didn't experience a crud ring there either.

Corbi
 

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Do a search on here.

One of our members posted photos of their .357 brass, which had been fireformed to a new bottlenecked cartridge, when fired in his 1894C with a .38 Special chamber ring.

Jon

EDIT

Did a little search for you and found it here: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,51146.0.html

Think about how that may affect pressures.
 

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For me it shows up quicker when using fatter cast bullets that are sized to .359 for the marlin, and then used in a revolver. In this case, it doesn't take very many 38's to cause the 357's to stick a little when chambering in my GP 100.
 

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When I shoot my .38's in my .357's, I clean it using a .40 caliber brush which gets all the crap and build up out of the way. Same technique goes good for leading too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
planeflyer21 said:
Do a search on here.

One of our members posted photos of their .357 brass, which had been fireformed to a new bottlenecked cartridge, when fired in his 1894C with a .38 Special chamber ring.

Jon

EDIT

Did a little search for you and found it here: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,51146.0.html

Think about how that may affect pressures.
This is interesting it would be nic to know what kind of powder he was loading the 38s with andhow many rounds went through it uncleaned before the 300 he witnessed. I have esaily sshot 300 38s through my 1894 and have not seen this occur with my 357s.

I think its important that we get to the bottom of this. We are scaring people out of casually shooting 38s from time to time. I mean lerts face it. there are many people that actually put 10,000 rounds through hteir 1894 in a year much less 300 in one outing. And even then it might happen once or twice in 5 years. To tewll someone thilke that to worry ocver this issue is probably silly. Thats why I would like more info. Anything else like tthis keep it coming.
 

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I got a case of 1,000 rds of .38 special in round nose ( uh-oh ) and before I could try them out in my .357, I started resding about the ring build up and hesitated using them. In the meantime I read about chainfiring of round nose bullets in tube mags and got twice as concerned. Now I'd be inclined to shoot the .38's in my rifle (which is why I got them) and I'm almost convinced that the chain firing is also not the concern that some would make. Anyone got feedback on the chain firing story?? I would love to shoot these in something other than my Smith and Wesson.
The .38's are PMC and fully jacketed.
 

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I've fired round Federal fmj 38's in my 1894. Since there's basically no recoil with 38's, I don't think there's real danger of the cartridges firing under recoil. I'd probably start getting more nervous with 357's. But I wonder...even with a pretty significant whack, is that big ol' round nose really going to touch off a primer? I guess it could, but it doesn't seem super likely to me. But then I don't know what I'm talking about.
 

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I have a Ruger Security Six I bought new in 1976 and an 1894C I purchased in 1979. During those years when my eyes were younger I shot Bullseye Competition with the Security Six using .38 Special wadcutters and 2.7gr of Bullseye powder. During that time frame I fired upwards of 100,000 rounds of .38 Specials in my Ruger and other than normal cleaning I did no other maintenance to it. I NEVER, and I mean NEVER, did I have an issue with the so called ".38 Special ring" in the cylinder of my Security Six. I have also fired a lot of .38 Special rounds in my 1894C
with the Lyman cast bullet 358429 with plain base and 11.5gr of 2400 powder. No problem there either, but granted
I never fired the quantity of .38 Specials in it as I did my Ruger during my competition days. The load with the Lyman 358429 173gr bullet @ 1450fps with 11.5gr of 2400 is my plinking/walk about load. I just wonder if the dreaded .38 Special chamber ring is just another urban ledgend? Like I said, I cleaned my revolver once a week after shooting 500 to 700 rounds per week practicing and competing and field stripped and cleaned about four times a year.
358 Win
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
358 your experience seems to be the norm and not the exception so far.

FISH I myself wouldn't worry at all about chain firing RN in a tubular Magazine period. I do not buy them because I figure why tempt fate?

We had a thread about chain firing not to long ago and there were opinions from one side of the issue to the other. I do not know if it was here in 1895 or if it was in 45-70 I will see if I can find it. Too much good information to repost here.
 

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I used to shoot 38's and then magnums in my M66 years back. I did notice sticky loading and extracting of the magnums, but didn't think much of it until one of the seasoned shooters in my club pointed out the risk of a pressure spike because of the reduced chamber dimensions caused by the fouling.

I will still shoot magnums after 38's, but not until after I've cleaned the chamber.
 

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I remember reading some of Jerry Lester's old threads concerning the chamber ring. From what I remember, he used IMR4227 and got not powder buildup, but chamber cutting. The powder he used was so hot and high pressure that it was cutting a ring in the chamber. Do a search for Jerry Lester and check out some of his old threads. HTH
 
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